Life After Brexit

[Ray Scully]

[

I must take issue with that Gill.
So far, all of the compromise has come from the U.K. side.
The Eu have simply stated their terms and that’s it.

When Gove met his Eu counterpart last week to discuss NI, there was a compromise on both sides and an agreement was reached.

The same is needed with ref to the trade deal.

A simple agreement on the Eu and U.K. going for an independent arbitration commitment in the event of future divergence problems would get the ball rolling.
Unfortunately the Eu is insisting on the ECJ being the governing body.
We can’t accept that.
If we did, we would be forever in their legal orbit.
[/quote]

I am baffled as to why you did not see this coming. We left the club, any crumbs from their table would carry costs. Yes there will be losers on both sides its just that they can spread the hit over 37 members.

[towny44]

[

I must take issue with that Gill.
So far, all of the compromise has come from the U.K. side.
The Eu have simply stated their terms and that’s it.

When Gove met his Eu counterpart last week to discuss NI, there was a compromise on both sides and an agreement was reached.

The same is needed with ref to the trade deal.

A simple agreement on the Eu and U.K. going for an independent arbitration commitment in the event of future divergence problems would get the ball rolling.
Unfortunately the Eu is insisting on the ECJ being the governing body.
We can’t accept that.
If we did, we would be forever in their legal orbit.

I am baffled as to why you did not see this coming. We left the club, any crumbs from their table would carry costs. Yes there will be losers on both sides its just that they can spread the hit over 37 members.
[/quote]
Has the EU suddenly taken on a few new members???
Whatever the number it will only be the northern members who can afford to bail out the Mediterranean fruit and veg suppliers, and they must surely start to question how long they can afford to keep up this largesse.

[barney]

The general idea of a trade deal is that it benefits both sides.
The Eu, in forcing a no deal will harm us, no doubt, but it will also massively affect them and particularly Ireland.
From a business standpoint, it’s totally illogical, so the only conclusion can be that it’s political.
They clearly fear the U.K. outside of it’s control and they clearly fear another member breaking rank.

Drives a bus through the political declaration, doesn’t it?

[oldbluefox]

Whatever the number it will only be the northern members who can afford to bail out the Mediterranean fruit and veg suppliers, and they must surely start to question how long they can afford to keep up this largesse.

............................................ especially as one of their larger donors into the EU pot will no longer be there.

[barney]

After conceding to Hungary and Poland and passing the next seven year budget, Germany’s annual contribution will be €44 billion .
They are minted so can easily afford it but I wonder if the average citizen may start questioning it when Merkal retires next year.

[Gill W]

The proof that we are right to leave is all over the media (from both sides of the argument).

The European Commission has barred Boris from speaking directly to individual EU leaders, particularly Germany and France.

The European Commission has barred individual EU leaders from discussing any piecemeal deals with Boris if we arrive at No Deal on Sunday in order to force us back to the table in the New Year.

Just think about it. The European Commission, a bunch of unelected bureaucrats is ordering the elected leaders of major European countries what to do. Specifically to punish us for having the nerve to leave.

That is what is wrong with the EU in a paragraph.

Do the individual leaders actually want to speak to Johnson?

Merkel and Macron didn't.

They have entrusted all negotiations to Barnier, so Johnson was simply refered back to Brussells.

That's not punishing us, that's the EU members acting as a collective group

[Gill W]

After conceding to Hungary and Poland and passing the next seven year budget, Germany’s annual contribution will be €44 billion .
They are minted so can easily afford it but I wonder if the average citizen may start questioning it when Merkal retires next year.

They say that Brexit has so far cost us more than we ever paid to the EU.

I haven't fact checked that - but a bet we are paying out shed loads of money, for no tangible benefits.

[barney]

I believe that Johnson was criticised by many in Europe for not previously doing the rounds with national leaders and building relationships.
Dammed if you do....

[towny44]

The proof that we are right to leave is all over the media (from both sides of the argument).

The European Commission has barred Boris from speaking directly to individual EU leaders, particularly Germany and France.

The European Commission has barred individual EU leaders from discussing any piecemeal deals with Boris if we arrive at No Deal on Sunday in order to force us back to the table in the New Year.

Just think about it. The European Commission, a bunch of unelected bureaucrats is ordering the elected leaders of major European countries what to do. Specifically to punish us for having the nerve to leave.

That is what is wrong with the EU in a paragraph.

Do the individual leaders actually want to speak to Johnson?

Merkel and Macron didn't.

They have entrusted all negotiations to Barnier, so Johnson was simply refered back to Brussells.

That's not punishing us, that's the EU members acting as a collective group

Gill, why do you defend the EU all the time, even though you voted to remain surely your sympathies should now lie with the UK as we exit the EU.

[barney]

After conceding to Hungary and Poland and passing the next seven year budget, Germany’s annual contribution will be €44 billion .
They are minted so can easily afford it but I wonder if the average citizen may start questioning it when Merkal retires next year.

They say that Brexit has so far cost us more than we ever paid to the EU.

I haven't fact checked that - but a bet we are paying out shed loads of money, for no tangible benefits.

Well in excess of £200 billion has been paid in.
True, we’ve had some back but most Eu countries, as you well know, pay in little and get a lot out.
I’ve always maintained that our Eu contribution should have come out of the foreign aid budget because that’s exactly what it is.

[barney]

The proof that we are right to leave is all over the media (from both sides of the argument).

The European Commission has barred Boris from speaking directly to individual EU leaders, particularly Germany and France.

The European Commission has barred individual EU leaders from discussing any piecemeal deals with Boris if we arrive at No Deal on Sunday in order to force us back to the table in the New Year.

Just think about it. The European Commission, a bunch of unelected bureaucrats is ordering the elected leaders of major European countries what to do. Specifically to punish us for having the nerve to leave.

That is what is wrong with the EU in a paragraph.

Do the individual leaders actually want to speak to Johnson?

Merkel and Macron didn't.

They have entrusted all negotiations to Barnier, so Johnson was simply refered back to Brussells.

That's not punishing us, that's the EU members acting as a collective group

Gill, why do you defend the EU all the time, even though you voted to remain surely your sympathies should now lie with the UK as we exit the EU.

There are quite a few people who are absolutely desperate for Brexit to be a total disaster even though they choose to reside in the U.K..
It’s really very strange.
Almost Stockholm Syndrome.

[Gill W]

The proof that we are right to leave is all over the media (from both sides of the argument).

The European Commission has barred Boris from speaking directly to individual EU leaders, particularly Germany and France.

The European Commission has barred individual EU leaders from discussing any piecemeal deals with Boris if we arrive at No Deal on Sunday in order to force us back to the table in the New Year.

Just think about it. The European Commission, a bunch of unelected bureaucrats is ordering the elected leaders of major European countries what to do. Specifically to punish us for having the nerve to leave.

That is what is wrong with the EU in a paragraph.

Do the individual leaders actually want to speak to Johnson?

Merkel and Macron didn't.

They have entrusted all negotiations to Barnier, so Johnson was simply refered back to Brussells.

That's not punishing us, that's the EU members acting as a collective group

Gill, why do you defend the EU all the time, even though you voted to remain surely your sympathies should now lie with the UK as we exit the EU.

My sympathies are always with the U.K., as I want the best for my country.

It’s my belief that what is happening now is damaging and I am incredibly sad about where we are now.

I’m a patriot, not a nationalist

[Gill W]

Do the individual leaders actually want to speak to Johnson?

Merkel and Macron didn't.

They have entrusted all negotiations to Barnier, so Johnson was simply refered back to Brussells.

That's not punishing us, that's the EU members acting as a collective group

Gill, why do you defend the EU all the time, even though you voted to remain surely your sympathies should now lie with the UK as we exit the EU.

There are quite a few people who are absolutely desperate for Brexit to be a total disaster even though they choose to reside in the U.K..
It’s really very strange.
Almost Stockholm Syndrome.

See reply above for my position

[Mervyn and Trish]

Do the individual leaders actually want to speak to Johnson?

We will never know. As I said according to numerous sources the unelected Commission ordered them not to.

[Frank Manning]

I was a remainer. I am a pragmatist. I certainly dont want Brexit to be a disaster, that is masochistic. However I view what is happening as very sad, almost like watching myself bleed to death in a way. I have friends in France, Germany, and Holland. I spent 30 years doing project sales and management in almost every western european country, and all of scandinavia. After we joined europe I/we built up a good friendly customer base, trust and honesty were big factors. They are important to me. I cant say that I see trust and honesty in Johnson. I hope that at least those friends and customers remember that I am nothing like Farage, Johnson,or Rees Mogg.

[Manoverboard]

Trade talks are to be extended ... now there's a surprise.

[Mervyn and Trish]

We were waiting for the 11th hour. Now we're up to the 11.9999th. But surely they would not have agreed to talk on if their positions where as entrenched as the public rhetoric. And maybe Macron has realised half a fish is better than none!

[Bensham33]

One side must have softened on their demands. I wonder which one. I hope it ain't us.

[barney]

One side must have softened on their demands. I wonder which one. I hope it ain't us.

I think both sides will give a bit Paul.
That’s what negotiation is all about, after all.

[towny44]

We were waiting for the 11th hour. Now we're up to the 11.9999th. But surely they would not have agreed to talk on if their positions where as entrenched as the public rhetoric. And maybe Macron has realised half a fish is better than none!

Personally I am not too worried about fishing, in fact since a lot of our current fleet's fish is exported to the EU we have as much to lose as the French. However I do want rid of the ECJ, but I am more relaxed about the level playing field, since I cannot really envisage us ever having lower standards than the EU, although we may need to subsidise some of our key industries if the economy does not make a rapid recovery after the pandemic.

[Ray Scully]

We were waiting for the 11th hour. Now we're up to the 11.9999th. But surely they would not have agreed to talk on if their positions where as entrenched as the public rhetoric. And maybe Macron has realised half a fish is better than none!

Feels a tad like we are being played

[Ray Scully]

I was a remainer. I am a pragmatist. I certainly dont want Brexit to be a disaster, that is masochistic. However I view what is happening as very sad, almost like watching myself bleed to death in a way. I have friends in France, Germany, and Holland. I spent 30 years doing project sales and management in almost every western european country, and all of scandinavia. After we joined europe I/we built up a good friendly customer base, trust and honesty were big factors. They are important to me. I cant say that I see trust and honesty in Johnson. I hope that at least those friends and customers remember that I am nothing like Farage, Johnson,or Rees Mogg.

Thank you Frank, for posting from a perspective of substance.

[oldbluefox]

I am nothing like Farage, Johnson,or Rees Mogg.

I understand your feelings Frank. I feel the same about Major, Blair and Brown for the very same reasons.

[Bensham33]

One side must have softened on their demands. I wonder which one. I hope it ain't us.

I think both sides will give a bit Paul.
That’s what negotiation is all about, after all.

There hasn't been much negotiation by the EU. Their attitude has been leave on our terms or no deal. Boris is to be congratulated for standing up to their bullying. I expect at the end of the day we will give a little but so must they. I really hope the can sort this and broker some sort of deal but both sides have to be happy with the terms of that deal.

[Frank Manning]

Hang on a minute. Back in the mists of brexit time we were being assured by members of this very forum that the EU would be begging for a deal. Remainers were scaremongers, project fear they called it, and the word traitors was freely used in some extreme brexiteer circles to describe anyone not in tune with the message. BoJo promised us that it was oven ready. A bit like his promise of a 'world beating' test and trace system. I fervently hope we get a workable deal now. I can even put up with the endless crowing and the hero worship of BoJo, even in the extreme a knighthood for Farage, just to get a deal which keeps the last vestiges of manufacturing in Britain, that holds the union together, and gets this ludicrous divisive business out of the media.