Life After Brexit

[Gill W]

I am not actively seeking more divisions, if you correctly read my post you should have noted that I said I would react only to a remain poster seeking to assume , as usual, that they know more about what we really wanted out of Brexit than we did, and highlighting dubious media coverage.

As Foxy said time to give it a rest now, eh ?

[Gill W]

I don’t wish to signal anyone out for a special mention because at the end of the day this is a chat forum with varying points of view and depth of feeling. What I do hope is that we continue to judge each post on its merits and not allow the baggage of previous posts to influence the replies of those that will hopefully follow.

Good point Keith.

It’s possible to disagree with someone on one issue and agree with them on another issue.

Everything has got so tribal these days, it would be nice to leave that behind

[towny44]

I am not actively seeking more divisions, if you correctly read my post you should have noted that I said I would react only to a remain poster seeking to assume , as usual, that they know more about what we really wanted out of Brexit than we did, and highlighting dubious media coverage.

As Foxy said time to give it a rest now, eh ?

I'm very rested and relaxed Gill, but I will continue to respond to provocative posts.

[Onelife]

I am not actively seeking more divisions, if you correctly read my post you should have noted that I said I would react only to a remain poster seeking to assume , as usual, that they know more about what we really wanted out of Brexit than we did, and highlighting dubious media coverage.

As Foxy said time to give it a rest now, eh ?

I'm very rested and relaxed Gill, but I will continue to respond to provocative posts.

You should be good at it with the amount of experience you have John.....sent with a little bit of

[towny44]

As Foxy said time to give it a rest now, eh ?

I'm very rested and relaxed Gill, but I will continue to respond to provocative posts.

You should be good at it with the amount of experience you have John.....sent with a little bit of

Not biting Gill.

[oldbluefox]

It's not Gill.

[Gill W]

This is the trouble, even when I don’t say anything I still get the blame

[towny44]

It's not Gill.

Sorry about that, but Keefy does a superb impersonation of Gill.

[oldbluefox]

It's not Gill.

Sorry about that, but Keefy does a superb impersonation of Gill.

Should've gone to Specsavers

[Stephen]

A healthy argument is one thing, but biting is little below the belt.

[Kendhni]

I have to say I am somewhat confused. As I am sure you well read people will remember, late 2016/early 2017 Barnier (or maybe Junker?) gave a speech that laid out what he thought the outcome would be, Farage gave a strong rebuttal and called it 'project fear'' (as did the British media). When May presented her WA she referred back to Barniers speech since it outlined the future and the media were up in arms saying "that is not what we voted for" .... and yet, here we are ... it has taken 4 years for May/Johnson to deliver (within the width of a few cigarette papers) what the EU had pretty much laid out at the start.

By all definitions it is a hard brexit (albeit at the softer end of that spectrum) similar to the Canadian deal. At the minute the government are taking steps towards managing public expectations and have basically given little away ... it looks like the ERG have started to moderate their language as well. Obviously I haven't read the full 1246 pages but I have read bits of the executive summary and a few things stick out to me - note that these are just my initial thoughts and questions based on a limited read (I am not good with civil service legal mumbo jumbo) and therefore may contain misunderstandings (for which I await clarity from the government)
1. it looks like the ECJ will remain sovereign over anything within the EU sphere while the various UK courts, including the supreme court (much criticised by brexiteers) will be sovereign over all internal British matters (so no revelation there). A new independent panel (as if we didn't already have enough paper pushers - but seems to be a point won by Johnson) will exist to arbitrate but it will not have the power to change EU law. Interestingly it looks like UK citizens resident in the EU may be able to choose under which law arbitration will take place with the ECJ being the ultimate arbiter.
2. Johnson has conceded ground on fishing (some media reporting it as another sell out by Johnson - I don't see it that way, it would have been an act of gross stupidity to have allowed a deal to falter based on something that was nothing more than totemic - especially since no deal would have been even more devastating to many aspects of fishing. He has got slightly more quota but this will be reviewed/negotiated again in 2026. I always said they should have kicked this one down the line.
3. At the minute I am somewhat confused by the wording in relation to 'level playing field' so await clarification - but I think it means the UK will adhere to EU laws, including future laws, but they may object and go to arbitration (see point 2 above). When you consider that over the last 40 years the UK objected to less than 2% of directives issued by the EU I don't think there is too much to worry about here. I also suspect that this is another transitionary mechanism and will evolve over the next few years.
4. Something that I have been wondering for years and something that I cannot seem to get a grasp on is, how much, if anything, will this cost the UK in donations to the EU coffers? There is something there but I can't figure out what it is saying (must have another read) - I was tired.

Overall it isn't the worst position we could have had (the insanity of 'no deal' now having gone away) and, for me, suits how I chose to structure my personal finances (although I will need a couple of tweaks in the new year). I think it should be an easy sell for the government(unless they do something stupid or let the media drive the agenda); brexiteers have stated that they will pretty much take anything on offer as long as it can be described as brexit; and the transitionary mechanisms over the next 5-8 years should help placate remainers.

My biggest concern though is the ability of the government to carry out due diligence on such a large document in the given time - when you saw the mess they made of the WA. I also wonder how this will affect any American deal (it has been said that a deal with the EU would pose problems for a deal with America - although at this point America probably has more important issues on its mind).

[barney]

Too much time on your hands mate.
All that matters is that we have left the Eu with a trade agreement ( that so many remainers said was impossible) and both sides can move on.

Us, to being part of the normal world and the Eu to further federalism.

Any thing too contentious in the current agreement can be renegotiated in the future.

The European Union will become less and less important to us as we make our way out of forty years of foreign control.

I’d rather be in our position than their’s as the world moves on.

It’s a Merry Christmas is this house

[oldbluefox]

I'm happy with the bits of the agreement I have seen so far. No doubts there will be hiccups along the way but after 40 years with this organisation it is to be expected. I am just glad that at long last we can plough our own furrow and the agreement on trade is a bonus. The deal looks very similar to the Canada deal (which is what Boris was probably referring to when he mentioned an oven ready deal) so I'm not sure why it took so long to get it over the line other than the EU worrying about the competitive effect of the UK on its doorstep.
As for the fishermen my understanding is that we will take more and more control of our waters over the next five and a half years. It will take time for us to build up our fishing fleets to take account of the increased quotas and it also means we can fish in EU waters so on the face of it it seems a fair compromise.
I now look forward to forming trade deals around the world, something we were not able to freely do from within the EU.
Anybody know what the situation is regarding free ports?

[Stephen]

In case anyone wants the basics on the deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55456720

[barney]

In case anyone wants the basics on the deal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55456720

To be fair Stephen, we all know exactly how it will now play out.
Our Parliament will pass it with the odd objection from the usual suspects.
The Eu 27 leaders will reluctantly pass it.
One financially insignificant country will put up some sort of opposition in hope of screwing the Eu out of a few more euros. They will then pass it.
The only part of the Eu that is democratic, the parliament will make lots of noise about citizens rights etc and debate endlessly, then pass it, because ultimately, they are just there to rubber stamp the Commission.

Hopefully, both sides can then move on and become trading partners.

The end of an inglorious era.

[Stephen]

It’s called compromise barney. The trouble is, the EU always want too big a slice of the pie.

[Manoverboard]

Its called being in control .... until now that is

[towny44]

What problem does Annaliese Dodds and the Labour leadership have with the brexit deal? I assume they prefer the Norwgian model of being in the single market and customs union, and adhering to EU rules as well as paying for the privilege. I do hope they put that in their future manifestos, that should guarantee they remain in opposition.

[screwy]

and some say Boris is strange looking. That woman models for Gargoyles. And No, i'm not sorry.

[oldbluefox]

What problem does Annaliese Dodds and the Labour leadership have with the brexit deal? I assume they prefer the Norwgian model of being in the single market and customs union, and adhering to EU rules as well as paying for the privilege. I do hope they put that in their future manifestos, that should guarantee they remain in opposition.

It's what opposition party MPs do. As a past MEP she's ideal for the role so to be expected from her.

[Gill W]

What problem does Annaliese Dodds and the Labour leadership have with the brexit deal? I assume they prefer the Norwgian model of being in the single market and customs union, and adhering to EU rules as well as paying for the privilege. I do hope they put that in their future manifestos, that should guarantee they remain in opposition.

I thought Starmer was going to whip for the deal?

So what if a few Labour MPs rebel.

[barney]

An 80 seat majority carries.
Elected on a manifesto of Get Brexit Done.
It’s done!
The rest is up to us.
All of us.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The only alternative now is no deal. Let that be in the conscience of any party or person who votes against this deal.

[towny44]

The only alternative now is no deal. Let that be in the conscience of any party or person who votes against this deal.

I don't think the extremely high odds against the deal being voted down in parliament would even be enough to tempt Keefie. The lib dems and maybe the SNP will vote against it, but if the no's get to 100, I will be amazed.

[Onelife]

I know it’s water slapping along the seashore now but I do have a few reservations about the deal struck regarding fishing, in particular the way we will ensure quotas are adhered too and policed. From what I have been reading the enforcement of fish quotas are more of a self-regulating exercise with little scrutiny from the regulating authorities both sides of the channel.

It has to be a given that we will step up fish quota inspections because if the French flaunt the rules and we this side of the channel increase our quota it won’t be long before we see fish stocks suffering?

I would have thought a better way to go about this, ‘with regard to compliance’ would have been to see a French fishing vessel reduction in our waters to the equivalent of a !5% in the first year and then a further 10% over the five years, as I see this as a more enforceable/trackable measure than what I presume will be the very hit n miss stop and search procedures we presently use?