Current Affairs

[Mervyn and Trish]

And to add, the numbers at the moment are worse than when people were screaming for the schools to shut. It was, they claimed, dangerous to send kids to school. Now they've had a couple of weeks of home schooling suddenly it's not?

[david63]

Didn't one of the "experts" at the outset forecast that there would be at least 100k deaths?

[Ray B]

Didn't one of the "experts" at the outset forecast that there would be at least 100k deaths?

Maybe Wednesday the country get to 100,000 deaths.
Was it a minister who in April said something like 'we may get away with 40,000 deaths .'.

[towny44]

Didn't one of the "experts" at the outset forecast that there would be at least 100k deaths?

Maybe Wednesday the country get to 100,000 deaths.
Was it a minister who in April said something like 'we may get away with 40,000 deaths .'.

No it was Vallance who said if we only had 40000 deaths that would be a good outcome. I believe it was Neil Ferguson who said we could have 100000 deaths, or maybe he said half a million.

[Ray B]

It was 20000 deaths, wow, we have lost a lot of souls with today's report.

[Kendhni]

A very sad day - the UK has now passed 100,000 deaths from this disease.

[Kendhni]

It's good to hear Johnson saying sorry for the death toll in the UK (we have one of the worst records in the world). There is no doubt that he has some questions to answer, however the public also carry a lot of the can (based on their own stupidity).

[barney]

I agree with that Ken.
Our own public to have a lot to answer for, however, the government message should have been a lot harsher in my opinion.
Xmas was always going to cost lives because of the message.
I was chatting to a friend in Kent yesterday and was amazed when he told me they had the family round on Xmas day given that they are both in the high risk category.
His response was Boris said it was ok.
I replied that I was surprised that they took that risk given their health issues but it went over his head.
The message should have been.... don’t do it.
Plain and simple.

[Kendhni]

As we came out of lockdown last year (May-ish) I remember our CMO saying something along the lines of "that is the dress rehearsal over". This year was always expected to be worse and we still haven't reached the peak months of Feb/Mar. Now is not the time for complacency and the government must continue to tightly control lockdown.

We seem to be rounding the tip of a curve (our trend of cases seems to be going down - although deaths will lag this by 2-3 weeks). I note that France and Spain are starting to go back up again while on the other hand Italy and Germany are still showing a downward trend. Fingers crossed that we follow Germany and Italy.

[oldbluefox]

Somebody described it as the result of living in a liberal democracy. Those nations which have been more forceful in ensuring compliance with the measures their governments have taken have been the most successful in controlling the epidemic. We have relied far too much on people doing what is right and taking responsibility. This was naive at best and foolhardy in the extreme.
As Ken says and I agree, mistakes have been made, the major one being putting too much faith in believing there are not so many stupid people about. Even now there are plenty of reports of baby showers, illegal raves and house parties.Not only should these people be fined but their photographs should be published so the rest of the community know who to avoid. Of course that would put the snowflakes into a terminal spin.

[barney]

Being an island, we’ve always had the opportunity for more control than others.
Had the government taken a far more draconian attitude, they would have been vilified by some, but it would still have been the right thing to do.

There is a thing in business called ‘best practice’
See what others are doing well and emulate it.
Unfortunately, our government had felt it necessary to try and reinvent the wheel at every turn.

I predicted that Johnson would be gone by the end of summer when he won the last election but I don’t think he’ll last that long now.
Seeing him on tv yesterday, he’s a broken man.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The EU were three months later than us ordering the Oxford vaccine. They've not yet approved it. That's why they're trying to steal other country's supplies of the Pfizer vaccine.

[Stephen]

I agree with that Ken.
Our own public to have a lot to answer for, however, the government message should have been a lot harsher in my opinion.
Xmas was always going to cost lives because of the message.
I was chatting to a friend in Kent yesterday and was amazed when he told me they had the family round on Xmas day given that they are both in the high risk category.
His response was Boris said it was ok.
I replied that I was surprised that they took that risk given their health issues but it went over his head.
The message should have been.... don’t do it.
Plain and simple.

We have a neighbour opposite and next door to us who think the rules don't apply to them. Next doors daughter regularly travels down from Cambridge to stop for the weekend and the neighbour over the road is always having various members of the family round, yesterday being a classic with several relatives round for I assume some form of celebration. Makes my blood boil, but am I going to say anything, no. At the end of the day we have to live with them. I know one things for sure, I won't be as friendly with them any more. The worst bit is, the daughter is in the medical profession and the father of the family over the road is in the emergency service. They should know better.

[Onelife]

I agree with that Ken.
Our own public to have a lot to answer for, however, the government message should have been a lot harsher in my opinion.
Xmas was always going to cost lives because of the message.
I was chatting to a friend in Kent yesterday and was amazed when he told me they had the family round on Xmas day given that they are both in the high risk category.
His response was Boris said it was ok.
I replied that I was surprised that they took that risk given their health issues but it went over his head.
The message should have been.... don’t do it.
Plain and simple.

We have a neighbour opposite and next door to us who think the rules don't apply to them. Next doors daughter regularly travels down from Cambridge to stop for the weekend and the neighbour over the road is always having various members of the family round, yesterday being a classic with several relatives round for I assume some form of celebration. Makes my blood boil, but am I going to say anything, no. At the end of the day we have to live with them. I know one things for sure, I won't be as friendly with them any more. The worst bit is, the daughter is in the medical profession and the father of the family over the road is in the emergency service. They should know better.

Forward me their address, and then let me know when they next have visitors… I’ll do your shopping for you....and no I'm not joking!!

[towny44]

Being an island, we’ve always had the opportunity for more control than others.
Had the government taken a far more draconian attitude, they would have been vilified by some, but it would still have been the right thing to do.

There is a thing in business called ‘best practice’
See what others are doing well and emulate it.
Unfortunately, our government had felt it necessary to try and reinvent the wheel at every turn.

I predicted that Johnson would be gone by the end of summer when he won the last election but I don’t think he’ll last that long now.
Seeing him on tv yesterday, he’s a broken man.

We may be an island Barney, but we have gone out of our way to become a strategic airline hub and with the channel tunnel and ferries we have ensured speedy transit across our borders. So any attempt to suddenly pull up the drawbridge would have resulted in a major outcry of rage from all through society. I doubt any govt would have survived such a move.

[barney]

I agree with that Ken.
Our own public to have a lot to answer for, however, the government message should have been a lot harsher in my opinion.
Xmas was always going to cost lives because of the message.
I was chatting to a friend in Kent yesterday and was amazed when he told me they had the family round on Xmas day given that they are both in the high risk category.
His response was Boris said it was ok.
I replied that I was surprised that they took that risk given their health issues but it went over his head.
The message should have been.... don’t do it.
Plain and simple.

We have a neighbour opposite and next door to us who think the rules don't apply to them. Next doors daughter regularly travels down from Cambridge to stop for the weekend and the neighbour over the road is always having various members of the family round, yesterday being a classic with several relatives round for I assume some form of celebration. Makes my blood boil, but am I going to say anything, no. At the end of the day we have to live with them. I know one things for sure, I won't be as friendly with them any more. The worst bit is, the daughter is in the medical profession and the father of the family over the road is in the emergency service. They should know better.

We have similar opposite to us Stephen.
They’ve formed so many bubbles that we call it the Fairy Liquid house.
I found out recently that they have both had covid so maybe consider themselves not in danger.

My son in Kent is currently infected but his pregnant wife tested negative.
It’s a very odd virus.
He contracted it from a carpenter who is working on their extension, ironically being built to enable him to work properly from home.
He insisted on masks etc but still somehow managed to get infected.

[barney]

Being an island, we’ve always had the opportunity for more control than others.
Had the government taken a far more draconian attitude, they would have been vilified by some, but it would still have been the right thing to do.

There is a thing in business called ‘best practice’
See what others are doing well and emulate it.
Unfortunately, our government had felt it necessary to try and reinvent the wheel at every turn.

I predicted that Johnson would be gone by the end of summer when he won the last election but I don’t think he’ll last that long now.
Seeing him on tv yesterday, he’s a broken man.

We may be an island Barney, but we have gone out of our way to become a strategic airline hub and with the channel tunnel and ferries we have ensured speedy transit across our borders. So any attempt to suddenly pull up the drawbridge would have resulted in a major outcry of rage from all through society. I doubt any govt would have survived such a move.

I know all that John but it’s not a popularity contest.
One thing that is an absolute undisputed fact is that this virus is driven by travel and particularly international travel.
That has always been within government control.
Given it’s a worldwide pandemic, absolutely essential travel only should have been permitted with total quarantine on arrival, like Australia and New Zealand did.

A simple phrase was all that was needed.

Don’t Travel.

[david63]

I see that the "witch-hunt" is starting with the "experts" (and Labour Party) all with the benefit of hindsight knowing what should have been done.

Not to mention the calls for a full public inquiry - yes let's spend £x billion on an inquiry that will take years and come up with we should have been more prepared (were any other Western countries prepared?), we should have been tougher with enforcement from day one (agreed) and possible arguments that had things been done earlier or later then there would have been different outcomes with both side wheeling out their own experts with their own agendas.

[Ray B]

We were all learning on the hoof and mistakes were made which in Hindsight could have been done differently.
No doubt Captain Hindsight and his party will go at the government in due cause with what should have happened.
Lessons from years of cruising should have taught us cruisers, that when Joe public can not wash hands in the interest of hygiene on board ship, what are chances they are going to follow the governments request.

[Kendhni]

If Johnson is expecting to hide behind 'hindsight' then he is destined to become a mop - there will be far too many minutes and documents to show delays and bad timing.

Why did he delay the initial lockdown? Up to a month beforehand various groups were questioning when was Britain going to lockdown.
Why did he lift the spring lockdown against scientific advice and before the criteria he had clearly laid out was met? The cynic in me says he needed to get a certain visually impaired SPAD out of the headlines.
Why did he delay going into the second lockdown when the SAGE group suggested as early as September that a circuit breaker was required?

I believe his main motive for most of these was to try to protect jobs and commercial operations, but surely he must also have seen what was happening elsewhere. That was never going to work.

But most importantly I would like to see an investigation into the hundreds of millions of public money that was issued to friends, families and cronies by the conservatives on goods that ultimately were not delivered, not built to spec or were useless.

[towny44]

Being an island, we’ve always had the opportunity for more control than others.
Had the government taken a far more draconian attitude, they would have been vilified by some, but it would still have been the right thing to do.

There is a thing in business called ‘best practice’
See what others are doing well and emulate it.
Unfortunately, our government had felt it necessary to try and reinvent the wheel at every turn.

I predicted that Johnson would be gone by the end of summer when he won the last election but I don’t think he’ll last that long now.
Seeing him on tv yesterday, he’s a broken man.

We may be an island Barney, but we have gone out of our way to become a strategic airline hub and with the channel tunnel and ferries we have ensured speedy transit across our borders. So any attempt to suddenly pull up the drawbridge would have resulted in a major outcry of rage from all through society. I doubt any govt would have survived such a move.

I know all that John but it’s not a popularity contest.
One thing that is an absolute undisputed fact is that this virus is driven by travel and particularly international travel.
That has always been within government control.
Given it’s a worldwide pandemic, absolutely essential travel only should have been permitted with total quarantine on arrival, like Australia and New Zealand did.

A simple phrase was all that was needed.

Don’t Travel.

I think it would have been far from simple Barney, to prevent all possible traveller infections Heatheow would have had to cease all in-transit transfers, because most transit passengers interact with lots of air side employees. In fact even passengers terminating in the the UK would have had multiple interactions with airport staff, which would presented track and trace with monumental problems.
On top of that everyone accepts that we already had the virus running rampant in the UK, before closing borders had become an option, so it was considered too late. The current quarantine is intended to keep out dangerous variants, so a totally different situation, although Heathrow as a transit hub still creates the same infection issues for airside staff.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Okay EU fans tell me which part of this I have got wrong.

1. Both Pfizer and Astra Zeneca have reported problems supplying vaccines to the EU. This is from their plants in the EU and AZ say it has arisen because the EU were three months later in ordering than the UK, giving the company less time to address some issues which arose.

2. The EU still has not licenced the AZ vaccine for use.

3. The EU says the companies must tell them before they export any vaccine out of the EU to a third country.

4. The EU now also says that the AZ plants in the UK must divert stocks ordered and paid for and destined for the UK to them.

5. So in summary they are trying to block vaccine exports from the EU and force imports to the country from us.

I'm sure someone will explain to me that this is reasonable, is in no way a result of EU bureaucracy and incompetence but is, in fact, all Boris's fault.

[david63]

Yup that's about right.

It's bit like me going to Tesco (other supermarkets re available) at 10:00 in the morning and buying six tins of beans and then you come along at 10:30 find there are no beans on the shelf, even though you do not use any tins of beans, and expect me to let you have some of mine!

[Mervyn and Trish]

Yup that's about right.

It's bit like me going to Tesco (other supermarkets re available) at 10:00 in the morning and buying six tins of beans and then you come along at 10:30 find there are no beans on the shelf, even though you do not use any tins of beans, and expect me to let you have some of mine!

But please reassure me. It's not my fault for being late? It's yours surely for being early?

[david63]

But please reassure me. It's not my fault for being late? It's yours surely for being early?

Of course it is, but it's also the store manager's fault for not making sure that there were some beans available for you!!