Muses on a sad day . . .

[Mo2013]

I am proud to be British and certainly do not think we are a piddling little island, there is always a back door if you want to leave.
I am sick of my taxes paying for the idle and feckless who have put nothing into this country and all they think is they are entitled to it.
I wish Mrs T was in power now they would be soon off their back sides!

You choose to believe what suits you - not everyone in need is idle and feckless !!!! They are victims of circumstance and are very likely trying to damndest to improve the situation they find themselves in. If you don't like the way your taxes are being spent, then there is always a back door if you want to leave......

Well you have made it clear you do not like the way your taxes are being spent, so I take it the same back door is open to you also........?

Most of those up in arms yesterday about the cost, I would hazard a guess do not pay any taxes, yet they can stand around with their pints of beer, celebrating MT's death.

All I know is that before Mrs Thatcher's premiership this country was on its knee's , with the extreme left controlling the Labour Party.

As a result the country was loosing thousands of days off work, due the unions and their strikes, the nationalised industries were totally un economical.

What Mrs Thatcher did was to drag the country off its knee's and make individuals responsible for their own actions, rather than relying on the state.

Unfortunately we still have a lot of people in this country, who are still happy for the state to keep them, and who have no intention of trying to find work.

Fortunately at last we have a government who are prepared to sort out the benefits system, so it goes to those who genuinely need it, and not those who sit on their backsides, because they think its their right.

You can't say that those protesting do not pay taxes because you do not know that for a fact. Obviously Mrs Thatcher closed uneconomic and unprofitable things but she left those out of work to their own devices without a care. She decimated their industries without addressing the consequences of her policies. Whole communities were wiped out since the villages were built especially to house the miners and their families. They were taking responsibility for themselves, did have jobs, and worked hard, and she took all that away from them. You can't shut down whole industries and just leave the unemployed adrift as she did. Regarding the benefits system, those who abuse the benefits system are very few, and the government is now addressing these anomalies. Now, how many of you rich Tories take the Winter Fuel Allowance because it's there and because you can ?????

[Boris+]

This is not a blanket statement - it is superior superkingsize duvet statement ....... I am completely and utterly fed up with paying taxes and then seeing idle and feckless lazy and greedy individuals (or groups thereof) swanning around and spending their benefit money unwisely. If they have money to waste then their income should be (a) monitored and (b) potentially then minimised.

I have known in the past of someone who claimed benefits up to the hilt, but he was always 'available for a bit of work' providing people were willing to 'hush up about it' and 'pay cash and cigarettes'. I don't know why, but nobody ever reported this person. Lazy he most certainly wasn't, sly and underhanded and greedy - yes he was.

So, I do not like paying taxes, let's be straight about this, and then seeing people who are on benefits squandering the benefit money, and furthermore it annoys me even more when people like that spend the money on cigarettes, gambling, booze, fashion and beauty items - and they blasted well neglect their kids (which has in the past been part of how they got the benefit money in the first place).

If people want to have the nice 'ready meals' (either to show off or because they are too thick or too lazy to cook something basic from scratch), booze, etc then let them blasted well get out and work for it.

In this respect - and possibly this respect alone - I am not a blasted charity.

Em

[Serendipity]

By Harry Phibbs
Follow Harry on Twitter

That faction on the Left that has been busy over the past 48 hours denouncing Margaret Thatcher has been so blinded by prejudice that facts have been disregarded. In the Daily Telegraph this monring Allister Heath points out that manufacturing output rose during her time in office. Does anyone really believe that manufacturing would have done better without the trade union reforms and with British Leyland and the British Steel Corporation remaining under state ownership?

Then there is the charge that it was Margaret Thatcher who "destroyed" the coal mines and the mining communities. How many times have the BBC broadcast that claim without refutation? Yet the facts show that far more coal mines closed under the Labour Prime Ministers Harold Wilson and James Callaghan.

These are the figures for the sharply declining number of coal mines open each year under those Labour Governments.

1964 545
1965 .. 504
1966 .. 442
1967 .. 406
1968 .. 330
1969 .. 304

1974 .. 250
1975 .. 241
1976 .. 239
1977 .. 231
1978 .. 223
1979 .. 219

These are the figures for the Thatcher years:

1979 .. 219
1980 .. 213
1981 .. 200
1982 .. 191
1983 .. 170
1984 .. 169
1985 .. 133
1986 .. 110
1987 .. 94
1988 .. 86
1989 .. 73
1990 .. 65

The Lord Palmerston blog says:

It was the ever-erudite @allanholloway who brought to my attention a few weeks back that more coal mines closed under Harold Wilson’s governments than under Margaret Thatcher’s, and I owe him an apology for not having credited him sooner, given the number of retweets I got for passing that on earlier. Based on these figures from the government about 290 mines closed under Wilson in all his time in office, and about 160 under Thatcher. Because the figures are based on year end totals of pits operating, it’s not possible to be precise, but the relative scale of those numbers is clear. So why isn’t Wilson execrated by the Left for his part in the decline of coal mining?

That is a fair question. Do the Left seriously claim that Harold Wilson was accepting economic realities while Margaret Thatcher was motivated by sheer spite?

[Delboy]

I am proud to be British and certainly do not think we are a piddling little island, there is always a back door if you want to leave.
I am sick of my taxes paying for the idle and feckless who have put nothing into this country and all they think is they are entitled to it.
I wish Mrs T was in power now they would be soon off their back sides!

You choose to believe what suits you - not everyone in need is idle and feckless !!!! They are victims of circumstance and are very likely trying to damndest to improve the situation they find themselves in. If you don't like the way your taxes are being spent, then there is always a back door if you want to leave......

Well you have made it clear you do not like the way your taxes are being spent, so I take it the same back door is open to you also........?

Most of those up in arms yesterday about the cost, I would hazard a guess do not pay any taxes, yet they can stand around with their pints of beer, celebrating MT's death.

All I know is that before Mrs Thatcher's premiership this country was on its knee's , with the extreme left controlling the Labour Party.

As a result the country was loosing thousands of days off work, due the unions and their strikes, the nationalised industries were totally un economical.

What Mrs Thatcher did was to drag the country off its knee's and make individuals responsible for their own actions, rather than relying on the state.

Unfortunately we still have a lot of people in this country, who are still happy for the state to keep them, and who have no intention of trying to find work.

Fortunately at last we have a government who are prepared to sort out the benefits system, so it goes to those who genuinely need it, and not those who sit on their backsides, because they think its their right.

You can't say that those protesting do not pay taxes because you do not know that for a fact. Obviously Mrs Thatcher closed uneconomic and unprofitable things but she left those out of work to their own devices without a care. She decimated their industries without addressing the consequences of her policies. Whole communities were wiped out since the villages were built especially to house the miners and their families. They were taking responsibility for themselves, did have jobs, and worked hard, and she took all that away from them. You can't shut down whole industries and just leave the unemployed adrift as she did. Regarding the benefits system, those who abuse the benefits system are very few, and the government is now addressing these anomalies. Now, how many of you rich Tories take the Winter Fuel Allowance because it's there and because you can ?????

Protesting and paying taxes, I said hazard a guess.

A few more facts regarding Mrs Thatcher premiership


The inflation rate fell from a high of 27% in 1975 to 2.4% in 1986. The number of working days lost to strikes fell from 29m in 1979 to 2m in 1986. The top rate of tax fell from 83% to 40%.

As for your question re Rich Tories, I cannot answer that as I am not one of them.

I would just point out I lived prior to and during Mrs Thatchers premiership, I also never had a job for life, I had many jobs during my life and moved around to obtain them.

My last job change was at the age of 65, which I remained at for a further two and a half years.

[kaymar]

My old Mum used to say all the time to me about someone who has died...."If you can't say something nice about someone, then say nothing at all."

Nuff said..

Goodbye Maggie"

Serendipity, and Delboy - it was probably my old Mum who used to say "Don't confuse them with the facts, they've already made up their minds"

[gfwgfw]

Well Well Well

Congratulations dear posters

A concise and balanced debate on the pros and cons of the late Baroness Thatcher

Like her or not . . .

. . . . she was a resolute leader and ventured where others feared to tread, both pre and post her long term in office

Our great country needs another leader with MT sized balls, certainly none abroad at the mo

My first thoughts when we were enlightened the almost state funeral for "Maggie" was a bridge too far

I have now conceded it was an extravagance well received by both her loyal/detractors "brothers" and "sisters"

Yet another big event organised to perfection as only the Brits can do it

I wish you all a happy day, where ever and what ever

Lubooo all - even the straw clutching leaning spire from Chesterfield

[noddy10]

This thread is now getting nonsensical and rather silly now based upon your own political beliefs and what each of us want to believe. Unfortunately that is how politics is these days by bull**** from all political parties and we should not always believe what they say and what they want you to hear and believe to suit there own ends.

[gfwgfw]

Morning Mr Noddy

I wish that I could agree with you

But I really enjoy hearing the views/opinions of others


Of course debate is generally swayed to your own personal persuasion

What is wrong with that

I did admire the "Iron Lady" even though in hindsight you could argue she did make one or two monumental mistakes

And I did squirm a little when she announced "We are grand grand-parents"

I do hope my little narrative has caused you no angst

Graham

[gfwgfw]

. . . . and BTW

The shipmate who has homed in on no current US leaders in attendance yesterday

Should pop in to indulge the major US newspapers

[Dark Knight]

how can people on here talk about hardship, when they are off on cruise holidays , assuming they do go on cruises

very very silly

[HK phooey]

Here's your starter for ten, who said this "I absolutely abhor and deplore the actions of people who seek to celebrate the fact that another person has died"?
I'll give you a little hint - this doesn't apply if the person that has died is disliked by her, because then it's a good reason to celebrate by shoving a cream cake down her neck Smashing bit of hypocrisy me old fruit

[Dark Knight]

pleading poverty on a site about expensive cruise holidays is hypocrisy and frankly laughable

[HK phooey]

That's not quite true Batty as I am finding myself a tad skint after my 5 week cruise to the caribbean.

[Dark Knight]

Blame MT, everyone else does

[gfwgfw]

Hey Ho me dear Helen

Live and let live

We are all akin to strange behavior don't you think

I have certainly had many a drink to celebrate the life and times of the deceased

Do hope all is well with you and yours on your beautiful Island

Luboooo lots

[HK phooey]

Hey ho dear Giant. I am a stranger to strange behaviour myself All is good thanks and the sun is shining on the lovely IOW today!

[Boris+]

Hi HK,

That is simply because the kind fates always smile on the best of us.

Em

[HK phooey]

Cream cake anyone?

[HK phooey]

Btw, I'm not a rich Tory, I have a chin - two in fact

[Admiral of the Humber]

In a 100 years Graham the Gentle Giant I am afraid that nobody is going to remember you, or me or any of the other contributors to this lovely site. Margaret Thatcher on the other hand will be remembered as the Iron Lady, and not as Thatcher the Milk Snatcher or any of the other silly handles applied to her by her weaker politcal opponents.

Regards
Rob aka AOTH

[Not so ancient mariner]

....but his likeness (effigy?) will still be on the hillside long after Mrs T has been forgotten!

[Admiral of the Humber]

I don't believe Graham is actually green......

[noddy10]

You havent seen the recent Getaway fares then Dark Knight where they are cheaper than most 4* HB holidays in the Med or UK and I wouldnt call expensive cruise holidays. There was a lot on our cruise on Azura last November that paid £499 for 14 nts and were there because it was cheaper than Benidorm or Tenerife holidays.

[oldbluefox]

If you can afford a holiday anywhere, at any price, you are not in poverty. I can testify to that and I didn't consider myself poor.

[Boris+]

I think there is more than a subtle difference between people ranting and raving out in public (wearing offensive clothing and carrying placards) and someone quietly enjoying a cream tea and keeping thoughts private (eg not talking about it out loud in public).

I can tell the difference - and if anyone else can't ........ !

And at that point I'm merrily off then folks I think.

Em