M25 Protests

[Onelife]

I hope they give hefty fines to those arrested today. It may well be the right time but it certainly wasn’t the right place in drawing attention to climate change issues. Do they ever engage their brains to what disruption they cause to people’s lives e.g., people visiting sick relatives, people going for job interviews, meetings, missed travel arrangements but to name a few?

They should know by now that the way you move forward with issues such as climate change is to take the public with you...this kind of action does the complete opposite Imo.

[oldbluefox]

I always wonder how many practise what they preach.......

[david63]

I would rather these "activists" would come up with a solution rather than constantly saying "something needs to be done". We all know something needs to be done but what?

[towny44]

A question I would like these activists to answer is, what impact do they believe that any energy saving policy that our govt introduces, will have on the CO2 emissions of China, India and any other large scale polluting developing nation. And what effect is our puny CO2 saving going to have on the planet as a result?

[Kendhni]

They should know by now that the way you move forward with issues such as climate change is to take the public with you...this kind of action does the complete opposite Imo.

Unfortunately the public are only willing to be led if it doesn't affect them or someone else is paying. These are not new issues and despite being raised in profile for over 40 years now things have only got worse. Yes a few old biddies pat themselves on the back for putting something in a recycle bin ... that means they have totally failed to grasp the actual message.

40 years ago it was thought that this could be a problem before the end of the 21st century, now the total lack of government, business and individuals engaging and dealing with this in any real meaningful way means that climate change is now starting to directly and negatively affect everyone. The impact is simply going to get worse over the next few decades - we are still at the thin end of the wedge - and there is a lot of evidence that the indifference shown means we have now passed the point of no return..

The time for softly-softly and coercion has been and gone. As I have said before COVID has supplied an absolute gift in dealing with this to the government but for some reason the current government are so blinkered that they can't see past their 'return to the status quo' mentality.

I used to care but, given that the majority of those who have children and grand children are only willing to pay lip service, and even then as long as it barely affects them, I have lost any energy or desire to take part again. However I applaud the tiny minority that do raise the profile and take action - if all those whining about a motorway being blocked for a few minutes think it is anything other than a minor inconvenience then they better start stockpiling the prozac for they will need it.

[Manoverboard]

Blocking off a motorway will have no impact on their climate change dreams, a worthy cause but their approach is yet another example of total selfishness and a lack of consideration for anybody other than their selves.

Meanwhile granny and I will continue to pop things into the re-cycle bin with a smile on our faces.

[Meg 50]

Surely the blockage did more damage to the environment than the normal traffic flow would have?

I accept that things need to be done - but not sure alienating the general populous is the way to do it - the message gets lost in the chaos

[Stephen]

Run’m over

[Kendhni]

Surely the blockage did more damage to the environment than the normal traffic flow would have?

Not if it reduced trafiic flow. Although it could be argued that much of the traffic just took longer detours -but the impact of that would be absolutely miniscule compared to the real damage that is being done.

I accept that things need to be done - but not sure alienating the general populous is the way to do it - the message gets lost in the chaos

And therein lies the problem. Everybody accepts that somebody else should be doing something as long as they only need to pay lip service and it doesn't really affect them. That has how it has been for over 40 years now. To my mind this alienated nobody apart from a small number of motorists that were mildly inconvenienced. If that means some people start getting ;real' about this then that is a good thing - however I believe most people still live in a delusional world that thinks 'this ain't going to affect me'.

[towny44]

Surely the blockage did more damage to the environment than the normal traffic flow would have?

Not if it reduced trafiic flow. Although it could be argued that much of the traffic just took longer detours -but the impact of that would be absolutely miniscule compared to the real damage that is being done.

I accept that things need to be done - but not sure alienating the general populous is the way to do it - the message gets lost in the chaos

And therein lies the problem. Everybody accepts that somebody else should be doing something as long as they only need to pay lip service and it doesn't really affect them. That has how it has been for over 40 years now. To my mind this alienated nobody apart from a small number of motorists that were mildly inconvenienced. If that means some people start getting ;real' about this then that is a good thing - however I believe most people still live in a delusional world that thinks 'this ain't going to affect me'.

It probably did only inconvenience a few, but what good did it do? As individuals we can do very little to influence anything, and even if demos increase the awareness and more people vote green, what impact will that have. IMO however important climate issues are, they will only ever account for a small percentage of govt time, purely because running a major nation and ensuring minimal starvation and providing education and healthcare to 60 million people requires probably more than 100% of govt time for a satisfactory outcome. So even a green govt would struggle to do more than the govt is doing at present.

[Meg 50]

Run’m over

that's what my OH said!

[Kendhni]

It probably did only inconvenience a few, but what good did it do?

It got noticed, made headlines and you are talking about it.

As individuals we can do very little to influence anything, and even if demos increase the awareness and more people vote green, what impact will that have. IMO however important climate issues are, they will only ever account for a small percentage of govt time, purely because running a major nation and ensuring minimal starvation and providing education and healthcare to 60 million people requires probably more than 100% of govt time for a satisfactory outcome. So even a green govt would struggle to do more than the govt is doing at present.

One individual can't make much of a difference but 65million individuals doing the right thing can.
Instead of taking the action required 30-40 years ago governments decided to do virtually nothing and patronize anyone who dared to think it was an important issue. However when it became vote worthy they jumped on the band wagon - they still did nothing but at least they said they were interested. Now it is (probably) too late they still do nothing but pontificate and prevaricate, simply because if they take the action that is needed then the selfish electorate will be up in arms.

The only positive for those that chose to do nothing, or simply pay lip service, is that they will be dead before they have to explain to their children why they did nothing.

[Ray B]

We have the rite to freedom of speech and freedom of protest and the protesters did just that..
What about those who were inconvenienced, to going about their business, to work, a hospital appointment, to catch a flight or a business meeting. Did they not have rites to be able to move without let or hindrance and be afforded assistance and protection as may be necessary to continue on their travel to which Her Majesty requires.
The Police just stood around no doubt ready to nick any motorist who may wish to break through the protesters.
What would the police do should you demand action waving the relevant page of your passport under their nose?

[Onelife]

They should know by now that the way you move forward with issues such as climate change is to take the public with you...this kind of action does the complete opposite Imo.

Unfortunately the public are only willing to be led if it doesn't affect them or someone else is paying. These are not new issues and despite being raised in profile for over 40 years now things have only got worse. Yes a few old biddies pat themselves on the back for putting something in a recycle bin ... that means they have totally failed to grasp the actual message.


Contrary to how you might have interpreted my post, I couldn’t agree more with the crux of your comments and for my part I would be more than happy to completely turn my life upside-down if by doing so it complies with policies that would make a genuine difference. However, I fail to see how obstructing a motorway does anything at all to constructively move things forward.

The problem is that of knowing how you get countries with rich reserves of fossil fuels to fall in line with policies laid out in the Paris Climate Agreement…. wishful thinking when the economic advantages to these countries is enormous.

[Quizzical Bob]

Not if it reduced trafiic flow. Although it could be argued that much of the traffic just took longer detours -but the impact of that would be absolutely miniscule compared to the real damage that is being done.

Nope.

The real damage is to the message that they are trying to promote.

And nobody that was inconvenienced would ever describe their inconvenience as miniscule.

[Mervyn and Trish]

It probably did only inconvenience a few, but what good did it do?

It got noticed, made headlines and you are talking about it.

As individuals we can do very little to influence anything, and even if demos increase the awareness and more people vote green, what impact will that have. IMO however important climate issues are, they will only ever account for a small percentage of govt time, purely because running a major nation and ensuring minimal starvation and providing education and healthcare to 60 million people requires probably more than 100% of govt time for a satisfactory outcome. So even a green govt would struggle to do more than the govt is doing at present.

One individual can't make much of a difference but 65million individuals doing the right thing can.
Instead of taking the action required 30-40 years ago governments decided to do virtually nothing and patronize anyone who dared to think it was an important issue. However when it became vote worthy they jumped on the band wagon - they still did nothing but at least they said they were interested. Now it is (probably) too late they still do nothing but pontificate and prevaricate, simply because if they take the action that is needed then the selfish electorate will be up in arms.

The only positive for those that chose to do nothing, or simply pay lip service, is that they will be dead before they have to explain to their children why they did nothing.

I presume you're doing your bit by giving up Caribbean fly cruising in favour of cycle/camping holidays in the UK.

[Kendhni]

I presume you're doing your bit by giving up Caribbean fly cruising in favour of cycle/camping holidays in the UK.

Why would you presume that? I told you I don't really care any more but I applaud those that do.

[Meg 50]

Not if it reduced trafiic flow. Although it could be argued that much of the traffic just took longer detours -but the impact of that would be absolutely miniscule compared to the real damage that is being done.

Nope.

The real damage is to the message that they are trying to promote.

exactly - they look like extremist nutters - not caring thoughtful people - a great shame for their message

[barney]

To raise awareness ???
Is there anyone not actually aware?
I’d bet that most of those protesters were exactly the same people who are on every other protest.
There are a hardcore who consider themselves political activists.

[Kendhni]

exactly - they look like extremist nutters - not caring thoughtful people - a great shame for their message

40 years ago I was having similar accusations leveled at me and people I associated with - apparently we were extremist nutters because we promoted and environmental message ... we got spat at, jostled and I even had a tooth broken and saw several friends put in hospital by those that called us extremists. Strangely those same politicians that levelled those insults at us are the same politicians that are now pretending they care because there are many votes to be had, from people too lazy to do anything meaningful, that now side with yesterdays extremist nutters.

[towny44]

exactly - they look like extremist nutters - not caring thoughtful people - a great shame for their message

40 years ago I was having similar accusations leveled at me and people I associated with - apparently we were extremist nutters because we promoted and environmental message ... we got spat at, jostled and I even had a tooth broken and saw several friends put in hospital by those that called us extremists. Strangely those same politicians that levelled those insults at us are the same politicians that are now pretending they care because there are many votes to be had, from people too lazy to do anything meaningful, that now side with yesterdays extremist nutters.

How many of the active politicians of 40 years ago are still going strong? I know Huddersfields Barry Shearnan is still around today, but even the labour party take little notice of him.

[oldbluefox]

The police should have just walked away. I feel sure many drivers would have soon sorted them out. Good cause, wrong tactics and all they're doing is alienating themselves.
Considering our carbon effect in global terms their attention would be better served by focusing on America, India and China for starters and then turn their attention to deforestation of rainforest for the production of palm oil.

[Ray B]

They're back again, now blocking M25 near South Mimms.

[Manoverboard]

It's a chilly morning .... time for the water hoses

[oldbluefox]

No time for them whatsoever. Get the water cannons out. Would do if Khan hadn't got rid of them.