M25 Protests

[Kendhni]

While there are good arguments for cutting speed limits, I don't consider this to be it. As I have said a couple of times now they have made their point, they have grabbed their headlines, they now need to escalate this and keep momentum going through more traditional means. At least until they see if the government is willing to (or even can) do something about it.

The government can’t give in to such blackmail. If they did then every petty cause celebre would be holding marches down the M25. There are democratic methods for getting changes made and this is as remote from them as you could get.

Overall we are roughly in agreement about the 'end' but maybe not the 'means'.

Governments give into blackmail all the time (maybe that is why there are so many marches). It appears everyone everywhere is lobbying or marching for something or other. Whether it be Brexit marches, remain marches, WASPE, LGBTQ, anti-racism, BLM, unions, nurses, fox hunting, bypasses, HS2, poll tax, frack off etc. etc. etc. they all effectively choose a time and place with an aim to be disruptive and get their 'cause' noticed - are they all blackmailers and vermin?

Various companies and organizations employ people or consultancies to be lobbyists for them ... and government reciprocates by providing officials to interact with them ... that is our system one in which nepotism and little brown envelopes appear to carry just as much weight as anywhere else in the world. This country provides the democratic right to freedom of speech and to peaceful protest (both rightly being protected under law) so arguably they are just exercising their democratic rights.

If I may paraphrase ... "I may not agree, but I will defend to the death your right".

[Stephen]

I've no problem with freedom of speech and peaceful protest providing it doesn't disrupt or infringe other peoples right to freedom of movement.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The daft thing is there have already been government schemes to encourage and subsidise insulation. We have cavity wall.insulation through one of them. Do they expect Boris to come round in a van with a few rolls of loft
insulation on his day off?

[Kendhni]

I've no problem with freedom of speech and peaceful protest providing it doesn't disrupt or infringe other peoples right to freedom of movement.

Any protest will disrupt someone, rightly or wrongly, we have to accept that it is part of a democratic society.
The right to freedom of movement is not immutably universal, there are many reasons why you may not be able to travel on a given road at a given time ... however you retain the right to utilise other roads to get to your destination. I appreciate that is far from ideal!

[Stephen]

I've no problem with freedom of speech and peaceful protest providing it doesn't disrupt or infringe other peoples right to freedom of movement.

Any protest will disrupt someone, rightly or wrongly, we have to accept that it is part of a democratic society.
The right to freedom of movement is not immutably universal, there are many reasons why you may not be able to travel on a given road at a given time ... however you retain the right to utilise other roads to get to your destination. I appreciate that is far from ideal!

Traffic lights, congestion, road works, accident etc are one thing, someone or a group causing an obstruction is another.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm utterly opposed to the right to peaceful protest where innocent and powerless members of the public are targeted. They should be targeting Parlliament.

But in the meantime should we get a couple of hundred people together to surround their leaders house for a month to prevent him going about his daily life?

[Kendhni]

Any protest will disrupt someone, rightly or wrongly, we have to accept that it is part of a democratic society.
The right to freedom of movement is not immutably universal, there are many reasons why you may not be able to travel on a given road at a given time ... however you retain the right to utilise other roads to get to your destination. I appreciate that is far from ideal!

Traffic lights, congestion, road works, accident etc are one thing, someone or a group causing an obstruction is another.

I don't disagree but in reality that is not how things work.

Prior to COVID I often would have my daily commute home move from 30-40minutes to in excess of 3 hours because of pretty much everything you list as being acceptable. At one point the problem was the introduction of bus lanes ... to the point they had to cancel the buses because of the congestion caused by the bus lanes (seriously! typical civil service screw up). On one occasion the police drove past and knocked on my window to tell me I should not be using my mobile phone while driving, it only took me 2 words to politely explain that my ignition was off and we hadn't moved for over half an hour and would we all not be better served if they helped to get the traffic moving.

So it is not about being inconvenienced, we will all experience that many times in our lives, it is how we handle it when we are inconvenienced.

[Kendhni]

But in the meantime should we get a couple of hundred people together to surround their leaders house for a month to prevent him going about his daily life?

Knock yourself out!!
Let me know how it went.

[Stephen]

Ken

There is a difference about being inconvenienced through every day life and deliberate inconvenience.

Did you manage to get bail after back chatting Mr plod and using your phone

As an aside. Taken from the RAC website

When can you use a phone in your vehicle?
The law is clear on when you can use a hand-held device behind the wheel.

It is only legal if you are safely parked – and this does not include waiting in traffic or stationary at the traffic lights.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/lega ... hone-laws/

[Quizzical Bob]

in the meantime should we get a couple of hundred people together to surround their leaders house for a month to prevent him going about his daily life?

I’m in

[Kendhni]

There is a difference about being inconvenienced through every day life and deliberate inconvenience.

True but what ya gonna do? Sometimes it is better to suck it up and let others do the ranting, raving, and throwing toys about like madmen (better their blood pressure than mine). I thought the OpenReach chap who confronted them was absolutely spot on and showed great maturity.

Did you manage to get bail after back chatting Mr plod and using your phone

I think they were going down every car and telling them the same, so they would have had to arrest about 200 people and their little fiesta didn't have the room for us all.

As an aside. Taken from the RAC website

When can you use a phone in your vehicle?
The law is clear on when you can use a hand-held device behind the wheel.

It is only legal if you are safely parked – and this does not include waiting in traffic or stationary at the traffic lights.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/lega ... hone-laws/

You are 100% right, but sometimes our police allow common sense to prevail over rigid law. I am guessing they were only telling people because it was their job to do so, but they didn't really care, they knew the situation.

[Kendhni]

A different slant on the M25 protests
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/problem-isn-t ... 23555.html

If the end result is " save thousands of lives, remove millions from hunger and fuel poverty," as they want, then the mild inconvenience of a few motorists may be a price worth paying.

[Mervyn and Trish]

You said it. If........

[towny44]

A different slant on the M25 protests
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/problem-isn-t ... 23555.html

If the end result is " save thousands of lives, remove millions from hunger and fuel poverty," as they want, then the mild inconvenience of a few motorists may be a price worth paying.

It's difficult not to agree with the main points of this and other articles, but the problem as I see it is that the UK only has one teaspoon to bail out the lifeboat, which is leaking at a much faster rate. The UK is well ahead of the pack in environmental issues, but the worst polluters show no sign of quickly following our lead. So is it any wonder that the general population are being apathetic

[Quizzical Bob]

A different slant on the M25 protests
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/problem-isn-t ... 23555.html

If the end result is " save thousands of lives, remove millions from hunger and fuel poverty," as they want, then the mild inconvenience of a few motorists may be a price worth paying.

Ken, this is not ‘mild inconvenience’. Six hours of not moving is more than just mild. It may be mild to you but you are hundreds of miles away. One man yesterday was driving his mother to hospital after she had suffered a stroke. The six hour delay instead of prompt treatment means she is now likely to be paralysed but according to you this will only be a mild inconvenience.

These actions will not make any difference to the future climate. You are fooling yourself if you think that.

[barney]

It’s utter twaddle to suggest that a protest is not a protest unless it inconveniences others.
We had an XR protest recently and they took a large corner green area that was at the entrance to the main car park.
They set up a stall and banners and handed leaflets to those entering and leaving the car park.
All very well run and very respectful.
They got their message across while disrupting nobody.
I’d call that the perfect demo.

[Kendhni]

A different slant on the M25 protests
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/problem-isn-t ... 23555.html

If the end result is " save thousands of lives, remove millions from hunger and fuel poverty," as they want, then the mild inconvenience of a few motorists may be a price worth paying.

Ken, this is not ‘mild inconvenience’. Six hours of not moving is more than just mild. It may be mild to you but you are hundreds of miles away. One man yesterday was driving his mother to hospital after she had suffered a stroke. The six hour delay instead of prompt treatment means she is now likely to be paralysed but according to you this will only be a mild inconvenience.

In every possible situation there will be exceptions. We always allowed emergency vehicles through or vehicles that used the hard shoulder that the police flagged as being emergency. I have no idea what provision was made in this protest.

These actions will not make any difference to the future climate. You are fooling yourself if you think that.

That has yet to be determined, with the COP26 conference coming up, now is the time to raise such issues.

[Stephen]

I’ll give you this Ken, you seem to have an answer for everything. And on that note I’m out.

[Kendhni]

A different slant on the M25 protests
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/problem-isn-t ... 23555.html

If the end result is " save thousands of lives, remove millions from hunger and fuel poverty," as they want, then the mild inconvenience of a few motorists may be a price worth paying.

It's difficult not to agree with the main points of this and other articles, but the problem as I see it is that the UK only has one teaspoon to bail out the lifeboat, which is leaking at a much faster rate.

Exactly! But that does not mean we should not at least try to bail faster or get a bigger spoon. Yes the UK can only manage about 5-6% of impact internally but can influence significantly more externally. When finger pointing people often forget that the reason others pollute more is because those countries are the ones making and shipping stuff to them.

The UK is well ahead of the pack in environmental issues, but the worst polluters show no sign of quickly following our lead. So is it any wonder that the general population are being apathetic

The UK is only ahead of the race in the sense that we need thoroughbred geldings to reach the finishing line but instead we have a collection of three-legged asthmatic donkeys with the UK moving from the middle of the field towards the front. It has done better recently, but it started from well down the field.

How are so many people still playing the apathy/ignorance game when the issues have been known for over 100 years and demonstrably verified for over 50 years. Just remember, there are no 'mays' or maybes' about this ... this IS going to detrimentally affect your children.

[Kendhni]

I’ll give you this Ken, you seem to have an answer for everything. And on that note I’m out.

I am not providing any answers, just discussing

[Onelife]

https://news.sky.com/story/m25-traffic- ... e-12413311

Enough is enough, time for them to do a bit of tree hugging.

[Kendhni]

https://news.sky.com/story/m25-traffic- ... e-12413311

Enough is enough, time for them to do a bit of tree hugging.

I agree and, to be fair, I did say as much several days ago (see post 35).
PS: What did the trees ever do to you to suggest that?

[Ray B]

Running out into the motorway is just reckless, lucky the traffic did not seem to be traveling at motorway speeds.
One can only imagine the carnage had traffic been up to speed and a car driver was put in the position of taking avoiding action against a protester and lost control.
Bloody idiots, the lot of them.

[Ray B]

https://news.sky.com/story/m25-traffic- ... e-12413311

Enough is enough, time for them to do a bit of tree hugging.

Is that a bit kinky?

[Onelife]

.
PS: What did the trees ever do to you to suggest that?

Because they have all the qualities that remind me of me. tall, handsome and huggable