Current Affairs

[Ray B]

It was a lively debate in the House this morning over 'the party', with the Paymaster General defending the government against the allegations until the out come of the enquiry has taken place.

[Gill W]

When did this get together take place and how many were involved, on 17th May the rules changed to allow up to 30 people in outdoor areas. It seems a bit nitpicky for the media to be getting so het up, even it happened a day or two earlier.

I think you may need to refresh your memory.

From the 13th May 2020 we could meet one person from a different household, as long as we were outside and in a public place. It wasn't until 1st June 2020 that up to 6 people could meet outside.

To put all this in context, people were still dying alone in hospital and grieving relatives had to attend restricted socially distanced funerals. It's not exactly nitpicking to expect people who made the law to abide by the law.

Putting aside the preposterous idea that Johnson needs someone to carry out an investigation to confirm whether or not he attended a party, I'm not getting too excited about the outcome of this investigation. This Sue Grey is far too close to 10 Downing Street to do a truly independent report, and, as she has to report the findings to Johnson himself. I doubt if we'll ever see the report, except in a highly redacted form, if we are lucky.

So the whole charade will roll on to the next outrage. The people who are angry will remain angry and the people want to look the other way will continue to look the other way.

[towny44]

Gill, I was assuming that this garden party was last year, seems a bit odd that the media have only just discovered this event. I imagine that someone has been paid by the red tops to ferret out this info.
Whoever thought up this "party" wasn't particularly bright, and if Boris did attend that was a fairly major mistake on his part.
However I can't really get too excited about it all, it's over and done with, and even if Boris were to fall on his sword, it's not going to make the slightest difference now to the number of deaths, hospitalizations or the infection rate.

[screwy]

I wonder if the Pope smirks........

Oh, I’m sure he does.
Ever noticed that Catholic or any other religion choir boys have center partings.?

[david63]

From what I have been reading there is a difference between what the law said at the time and what the Government recommendations were. The law has to be obeyed and anyone found in breach deserves all they get. recommendations are just that.

Now my understanding is that the law forbade outdoor gatherings in public places - I doubt that the garden of 10 Downing Street would be considered public. If that is so then no law has been broken but I do agree that it was not within the spirit of the law and probably foolhardy within the recommendations.

[Manoverboard]

Now my understanding is that the law forbade outdoor gatherings in public places - I doubt that the garden of 10 Downing Street would be considered public. If that is so then no law has been broken but I do agree that it was not within the spirit of the law and probably foolhardy within the recommendations.

I understood that there were exemptions regarding outdoor gatherings ... work being one of them.

[Gill W]

Now my understanding is that the law forbade outdoor gatherings in public places - I doubt that the garden of 10 Downing Street would be considered public. If that is so then no law has been broken but I do agree that it was not within the spirit of the law and probably foolhardy within the recommendations.

You could not have 30 people in any back garden on 20th May 2020. The rules changed at the start of June 2020 to allow up to six people to meet in private gardens.

By having 30 people in a back garden in May, a law was broken

I understood that there were exemptions regarding outdoor gatherings ... work being one of them.

It wasn't work. The emailed invitation said 'it would be nice to make the most of this lovely weather and have some drinks in the No 10 garden this evening. Please join us from 6pm and bring your own booze.' Sent by Martin Reynolds, Principal Private Secretary to the Prime minister.

Work is not mentioned. and it would beggar belief that Johnson was unaware of what was going on.

[Gill W]

Gill, I was assuming that this garden party was last year, seems a bit odd that the media have only just discovered this event. I imagine that someone has been paid by the red tops to ferret out this info.
Whoever thought up this "party" wasn't particularly bright, and if Boris did attend that was a fairly major mistake on his part.
However I can't really get too excited about it all, it's over and done with, and even if Boris were to fall on his sword, it's not going to make the slightest difference now to the number of deaths, hospitalizations or the infection rate.

Well, you have already detailed your low expectations for people in public life, so what you say doesn't surprise me.

[oldbluefox]

Had this occurred a few weeks ago I would have been much more enthused but 21 months it's history so I don't share some of the hysteria some are expressing.
As for Boris whatever I think won't make a jot of difference. Eventually he will go and will return to his privileged lifestyle, no doubt make a shed load of money from his memoirs and from the lecture circuit before picking up his sainthood from the Queen/Charles/William. Meanwhile the Tories will appoint a new leader.
So no I am not concerned.

[Gill W]

This forum has spent a lot of time over the last nearly 2 years moaning and complaining about people who break the Covid rules and calling them selfish and idiotic.

Yet, when presented with information that relates to the breaking of the laws by the people who made the laws, many are either professing not to care, or making diversionary jibes and digs in the hope of getting a reaction to move the conversation in another direction.

At a time when the country was very united in keeping to the lockdown, those in power flouted the rules, disrespecting all of the rest of us.

Now Johnson is actively laughing about it, and some are so far down the rabbit hole, they still refuse to see what he’s doing, and are still enabling him to carry on taking the mickey.

You have been gaslit on an epic scale.

[Bensham33]

I don't think it matters when it happened, theyve been found out, again, breaking the rules/laws that they passed and most people followed, to the letter. Why do they need an enquiry as to who attended a garden party that should not have happened. They either attended or they didn't. The enquiry is simply a smoke screen. Gives Johnson a chance to come up with an excuse and he hopes that all the fuss will go away. I don't think it will this time.

[david63]

Yet, when presented with information that relates to the breaking of the laws by the people who made the laws, many are either professing not to care, or making diversionary jibes and digs in the hope of getting a reaction to move the conversation in another direction.

I am not aware of anyone on here not saying that if the law has been broken then those responsible should pay the price.

This forum has spent a lot of time over the last nearly 2 years moaning and complaining about people who break the Covid rules and calling them selfish and idiotic.

There is a difference between rules and laws.

One point that I would add is that at the time of this alleged "party" there was a lot of confusion around what could/could not be done with many mixed messages around. It is easy to look back and say with a degree of certainty what was right and what was wrong but not quite as easy at the time with one person saying this and another saying that - even on this board we were not 100% sure about everything at that time.

[Onelife]

I don't think it matters when it happened, theyve been found out, again, breaking the rules/laws that they passed and most people followed, to the letter. Why do they need an enquiry as to who attended a garden party that should not have happened. They either attended or they didn't. The enquiry is simply a smoke screen. Gives Johnson a chance to come up with an excuse and he hopes that all the fuss will go away. I don't think it will this time.

You’ve made some very good points today Bensham

[Onelife]

I don't think it matters when it happened, theyve been found out, again, breaking the rules/laws that they passed and most people followed, to the letter. Why do they need an enquiry as to who attended a garden party that should not have happened. They either attended or they didn't. The enquiry is simply a smoke screen. Gives Johnson a chance to come up with an excuse and he hopes that all the fuss will go away. I don't think it will this time.

You’ve made some very good points today Bensham

Oop’s, that comment was meant for Barney…nethertheless your last post was a goodun Bensham

[barney]

Yet, when presented with information that relates to the breaking of the laws by the people who made the laws, many are either professing not to care, or making diversionary jibes and digs in the hope of getting a reaction to move the conversation in another direction.

I am not aware of anyone on here not saying that if the law has been broken then those responsible should pay the price.

This forum has spent a lot of time over the last nearly 2 years moaning and complaining about people who break the Covid rules and calling them selfish and idiotic.

There is a difference between rules and laws.

One point that I would add is that at the time of this alleged "party" there was a lot of confusion around what could/could not be done with many mixed messages around. It is easy to look back and say with a degree of certainty what was right and what was wrong but not quite as easy at the time with one person saying this and another saying that - even on this board we were not 100% sure about everything at that time.

Were you confused David, because we certainly weren’t.
My wife’s Aunt passed away in May last year and we were told not to attend the funeral because there were very limited numbers allowed.
Basically, direct family.
Meanwhile at Downing Street.
Fill yer boots.

[Gill W]

One point that I would add is that at the time of this alleged "party" there was a lot of confusion around what could/could not be done with many mixed messages around. It is easy to look back and say with a degree of certainty what was right and what was wrong but not quite as easy at the time with one person saying this and another saying that - even on this board we were not 100% sure about everything at that time.

To be honest, I thought it was easier in the first lockdown as we were all doing the same thing. I know the messaging hasn’t always been very good and I have commented on this in the past. But, even so, back in May 2020, we all knew the basics - we all knew large gatherings of 30 people were not allowed. There would be no excuse for the people who made the laws to not to be aware of this.

Incidentally, when I’ve spoken about poor messaging and communication before, many people on this forum seem to have thought there was no problem with comms

[Kendhni]

I wonder what the government will do about rising energy prices. Several times during the brexit campaign one of the claimed 'benefits' was that brexit would allow the government to remove vat from electricity - but Johnson, so far, has ruled that out. In this instance I agree with him and, if anything, VAT may have to be increased on electricity pricing (possibly all energy pricing).

However, many will struggle if energy prices keep going up (possibly increasing by up to 50% this year - if the headlines are to be believed) so something needs to be done. Many many years ago I had suggested stepped tariffs whereby the first X units were at a low price and thereafter unit pricing increased significantly the more that was used. This would encourage people to reduce frivolous wastage with various benefits to society

[Onelife]

I would imagine the heat will be turned on the Government when the 1-2 yearly fixed tariffs periods come to an end, it will be then that fuel poverty really starts to hit home.

Hopefully most will be able to ride the next couple of months out, after which, fuel demands should be in less demand and prices should then level themselves out a bit?

I’m off out to search for some kindling.

[david63]

Why does it always have to be the Government's fault/problem when energy prices rise? Do we have an outcry when they fall.

Gas, in particular, is a commodity and is subject to fluctuations in price mainly for supply/demand reasons but currently for political reasons with Russia calling the tune. If the price of baked beans was to double in the supermarket would there be the same fallout?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Yes of course. For some it would be Boris's fault.

[Manoverboard]

OVO have added 10% to my Direct Debit on the basis that their prices will rise 50% next year, odd that given that OVO also state that they only use renewable sources to generate their electricity

[david63]

OVO have added 10% to my Direct Debit on the basis that their prices will rise 50% next year, odd that given that OVO also state that they only use renewable sources to generate their electricity

Electricity is not the problem, it is gas

[oldbluefox]

Many many years ago I had suggested stepped tariffs whereby the first X units were at a low price and thereafter unit pricing increased significantly the more that was used. This would encourage people to reduce frivolous wastage with various benefits to society

I believe this has mileage if we are to be serious about reducing carbon emissions. The more you use the more you pay. I know of many situations where energy could be saved both commercially and domestically. Stepped tariffs would be an encouragement to be more selective when buying white goods, to install energy saving devices in our homes and to use energy only when we need it.
As for commercial and business properties whilst in some instances their options are limited there are many instances where energy is simply wasted. The cost of this energy is ultimately passed on to the consumer at the end of the line.

[david63]

Many many years ago I had suggested stepped tariffs whereby the first X units were at a low price and thereafter unit pricing increased significantly the more that was used.

To some extent this is already being done by some energy companies but in a different way. Some (most?) energy companies have dual tariffs whereby if you use electricity at off peak times then you pay less and with modern appliances where you can have a delayed start this is easily achieved. We pay 5p a unit for electricity during the night so the dishwasher, tumble drier and car charger are all done at night - saves a small fortune.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The thing that I believe is outdated if we are to achieve energy savings is the standing charge. If I switch off everything and close down my house for a year, using 100% less energy, I still pay almost £200. Standing charges should be outlawed and the energy cost should be entirely on the units used. That gives a real incentive to save energy. And I agree a sliding scale would be good too.