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oldbluefox
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by oldbluefox »

Breaking news......Novax has his visa revoked and will not take part in the Australian Open.
Can't say I have any sympathy for him.
We're out! :clap:
Get over it!!

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Post by Stephen »

Me neither.

Full story here:

Novak Djokovic: Australia cancels tennis star's visa https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-59991762

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Re: Current Affairs

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Prince Andrew loses his Military titles and use of HRH It says here ...
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Onelife »

Manoverboard wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 09:02 Prince Andrew loses his Military titles and use of HRH It says here ...
All it would take now is for another senior Royal to have been found to have done the dirty on lets say his wife and it could be curtains for the lot of them.

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Post by david63 »

And some people can't be bothered to get off their fat backsides to get a Covid jab - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-59984857

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Onelife wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 09:43
Manoverboard wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 09:02 Prince Andrew loses his Military titles and use of HRH It says here ...
All it would take now is for another senior Royal to have been found to have done the dirty on lets say his wife and it could be curtains for the lot of them.
I am sure you would be very happy for this to happen, or maybe not if Hal and Megs are the ones cheating on each other.
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Mervyn and Trish
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Mervyn and Trish »

oldbluefox wrote: 13 Jan 2022, 13:10 My glass half full says we are coming out of it and the WHO agrees with me. Not out of the woods yet but we are getting there and no lockdown over Christmas and the New Year.
I'm a glass half full person too, and what really gets up my nose are those who are not just glass half empty but who revel in portraying our country as a failure.

For example, the headlines when the UK became the 7th country in the world to pass 150,000 deaths. True of course and a sad number. But neglects to mention the relative populations. On deaths per million we are 31st in the world, and a very different story. And we are 9th in the world on the number of tests per million so we have a good idea of who is actually dying with (not necessarily of) Covid. In many places people are dying untested so probably don't even get into their country's statistics.

Those tests are another huge success. We truly do have a world beating system, starting from nowhere. People sneered when the government used that phrase as an ambition. They're still sneering now because we've had a hiccup in supply in recent weeks. Not because our supply or capacity has gone down but because of a huge surge in demand as rules have relaxed and those who couldn't be bothered to test now see it as a get out of jail free card. We are still doing more tests than most places in the world. More than any other country in the sainted EU.

So while it is not time to let our guard down because, yes as you say, we're not out of the woods yet, let's show a bit of pride in what our country is achieving. Surely it is possible to hate Boris and still do that?

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Re: Current Affairs

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towny44 wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 12:21
Onelife wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 09:43
Manoverboard wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 09:02 Prince Andrew loses his Military titles and use of HRH It says here ...
All it would take now is for another senior Royal to have been found to have done the dirty on lets say his wife and it could be curtains for the lot of them.
I am sure you would be very happy for this to happen, or maybe not if Hal and Megs are the ones cheating on each other.
Surely that would never happen? :shock: Still if it does perhaps they'll be on the Jeremy Kyle Show next. :crazy:

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by barney »

I actually agree with that Merv.
Far too much is made of the overall stat when really it’s easy to make a percentage comparison.
The U.K. is about mid table in Europe.
Still not great but by no means as grim as some would have us think.
Many countries stats make no sense when compared.
There appears to be no statistic of who died from covid and who died with covid.
Given the amount of covid infections caught in hospital, this information should have been kept.
Example is Mrs B’s aunt who had advanced dementia and passed away in hospital where she contracted covid while she was in there.
Recorded as a covid death.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Mervyn and Trish »

barney wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 12:35 Example is Mrs B’s aunt who had advanced dementia and passed away in hospital where she contracted covid while she was in there.
Recorded as a covid death.
Yes that sort of thing has always happened, even pre-Covid. Our death certificates these days are like catalogues rather than a simple statement. I think our certifying doctors like to hedge their bets. My Dad died many years ago and his death certificate reads like a medical dictionary. Yes he had all the conditions mentioned. But what killed him was a ruptured Aortic Aneurysm. The rest was irrelevant.

As an aside, a brilliant NHS nurse saved me from a similar fate when she spotted the signs of an aneurysm, with a dodgy heart valve as a bonus, in the course of screening for something completely different, and a genius surgeon patched me up with spares from the B&Q plumbing department!

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by screwy »

Did you use your Loyalty card.? Assuming you have one !
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Re: Current Affairs

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.....and what's the guarantee on the spares. Bearing in mind B&Q were involved

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Re: Current Affairs

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The economy is also on the up :thumbup: but some doom monger will be along shortly :thumbdown: ... just saying :yawn:
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The latest figures are pre Omicron and a drop is predicted, but the brains are saying our economy is very resilient and will quickly bounce back.
Last edited by Ray B on 14 Jan 2022, 14:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Current Affairs

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towny44 wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 12:21
Onelife wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 09:43
Manoverboard wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 09:02 Prince Andrew loses his Military titles and use of HRH It says here ...
All it would take now is for another senior Royal to have been found to have done the dirty on lets say his wife and it could be curtains for the lot of them.
I am sure you would be very happy for this to happen, or maybe not if Hal and Megs are the ones cheating on each other.
Absolutely I would but not till our present monarch has seen out what has been a life dedicated to the service of her country.

As for the other matter… you only have to look at Meghan and Harry to know they are truly in love…I love happy endings don’t you? :thumbup:

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Stephen »

Can see your after a knighthood

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Onelife »

Stephen wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 15:14 Can see your after a knighthood
I’m sure there are more worthy candidates than me ( not many). but just in case, do you get a medal. Is it gold…and can you recommend a good dealer?

I like to be prepared :thumbup: :D
Last edited by Onelife on 14 Jan 2022, 15:23, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Ray B »

Other news, after the 'colston' trial comes a extinction rebellion trial. A group sat on a busy dockland railway train holding it up for 77minutes in breach of a few railway acts over obstruction of the railway.
Whilst sitting on top, knowing they may face the beak in a trial, they called upon a higher authority to support them. As reported.
In their defence, Parfitt said she had felt 'deeply called by God to do all that I can to avert the catastrophe that is on its way to his whole creation', while Newell said he had been asking God while on top of the train to 'forgive us for what we've done'.
It obviously worked as the beak instructed the jury to find them not guilty.
Some European human rites of protest was mentioned which may give us all a chance to do what we want..
What is it all coming too, justice in the 21st century.
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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Mervyn and Trish »

I think I'll walk out of Sainsburys without paying next time and if they claim I'm shoplifting I'll say I'm not, I'm protesting against global capitalism and the carbon impact of selling Spanish strawberries and Polish milk..

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by screwy »

Ray B wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 15:23 Other news, after the 'colston' trial comes a extinction rebellion trial. A group sat on a busy dockland railway train holding it up for 77minutes in breach of a few railway acts over obstruction of the railway.
Whilst sitting on top, knowing they may face the beak in a trial, they called upon a higher authority to support them. As reported.
In their defence, Parfitt said she had felt 'deeply called by God to do all that I can to avert the catastrophe that is on its way to his whole creation', while Newell said he had been asking God while on top of the train to 'forgive us for what we've done'.
It obviously worked as the beak instructed the jury to find them not guilty.
Some European human rites of protest was mentioned which may give us all a chance to do what we want..
What is it all coming too, justice in the 21st century.

Bit like the Arms to Saudi trial of protesters who broke into Aeroplanes factory and damaged a couple of aircraft. Found not guilty.

Jurors amaze me sometimes, not sure what goes on in their heads.

It’s plain and simple, the trial is for trespass and criminal damage, not having a conscious.The Judge should make it clear from the start.
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Post by Mervyn and Trish »

screwy wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 13:29 Did you use your Loyalty card.? Assuming you have one !
No but I got a free ballcock
Last edited by Mervyn and Trish on 14 Jan 2022, 17:42, edited 1 time in total.

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Mervyn and Trish wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 16:22 I think I'll walk out of Sainsburys without paying next time and if they claim I'm shoplifting I'll say I'm not, I'm protesting against global capitalism and the carbon impact of selling Spanish strawberries and Polish milk..
If you do Sir Merv and get to choose where you do your community service Shropshire is lovely this time of the year ;) :thumbup:

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screwy wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 16:39 [quote="

Jurors amaze me sometimes, not sure what goes on in their heads.

If Jurors stuck to their brief of deciding whether the accused is guilty of the crime and not allow themselves to be influenced by the accused personal circumstances then a lot of them would get the punishment they deserve.

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Onelife wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 21:10 If Jurors stuck to their brief of deciding whether the accused is guilty of the crime and not allow themselves to be influenced by the accused personal circumstances then a lot of them would get the punishment they deserve.
The media only reports small parts of the story and spin it the way they want the public to be programmed (based on what will maximise their profits). On the other hand the judge and jurors will have heard all the evidence and make a decision based on that ... the jurors will also be directed by the judge and the judge will be directed by the law.

The system is far from perfect and there is no doubt that in this country money and indignation can buy just as much justice or freedom as anywhere else ... however it is the only system we have and I have never once heard anyone coming up with a viable alternative.
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Re: Current Affairs

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Kendhni wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 22:04
Onelife wrote: 14 Jan 2022, 21:10 If Jurors stuck to their brief of deciding whether the accused is guilty of the crime and not allow themselves to be influenced by the accused personal circumstances then a lot of them would get the punishment they deserve.
The media only reports small parts of the story and spin it the way they want the public to be programmed (based on what will maximise their profits). On the other hand the judge and jurors will have heard all the evidence and make a decision based on that ... the jurors will also be directed by the judge and the judge will be directed by the law.

The system is far from perfect and there is no doubt that in this country money and indignation can buy just as much justice or freedom as anywhere else ... however it is the only system we have and I have never once heard anyone coming up with a viable alternative.
Hi Ken…My comments don’t come from any media hype they come from a very reliable source.

Once the jurors have heard the evidence, they retire to consider their verdict and whilst the system is probably one of the fairer judicial processes in the world it still allows for some otherwise guilty offenders to walk away from court with a smile on their face. I know of a case where a woman was driving drug dealers back and forth to different drop off location. The majority of the jurors wanted to return a verdict of guilty but due to there only being nine on the jury panel they needed a unanimous verdict…seven of the nine wanted a guilty verdict, the other two wouldn’t go along with the majority so they were instructed by the judge to consider a lesser charge, this was the charge she was convicted for…she got community service.

My source was adamant that the two jurors were influenced by the fact that the woman had two children, was well spoken and came across in court as if she didn’t realise what her boyfriend and accomplices were doing.
Last edited by Onelife on 15 Jan 2022, 00:02, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Kendhni »

I fully believe that what you describe has happened many times along with many other failings ... some judges are incompetent, some police are dishonest and incompetent, some (all?) lawyers are dishonest, our system discriminates on gender etc. So I agree our system is not perfect.

I was however thinking about more high profile cases were the media deliberately spin a story. For example in the scenario you present the media could run a story about a highly manipulative woman living of the proceeds of crime, garnering a lot of public anger that could influence the judge and the jurors, who have maybe been told about, and seen, a naïve woman who did not understand what she was doing.

I was friends with a defence lawyer, for many years. We all called him 'John Smith-Defending' because in the papers the reporting always seemed to start with "John Smith, defending, told the court ...". He was very good at his job and, after getting one particularly well known low life off, I remember asking him how he slept at night. He went through a whole rigmarole about the law but the bit that stuck with me went something along the lines of "A guilty person avoids conviction when the prosecution fails to do their job; am innocent person gets convicted when the defence fails to do their job ... those are the ones I lose sleep over".

I have said many times that we should stop using "slave labour" for juries ... people who are not paid to be there, who may not understand the evidence, and often do not want to be there. We should use a professional juror system.
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Post by Mervyn and Trish »

Yes the media spin. But they published photos of protesters on the roof of and glued to the train. Hard to see the spin in that. Hard to see how it's not obstructing the train, which was the charge, whatever the motive. Maybe next time the driver should just set off.

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I'm sure that I read in one of the early reports on this case that the judge instructed the jury to find them not guilty - but if I did then it is not there any more. If that was what happened then I suspect that it was due to a legal technicality.

In the case that OL describes the unfortunate thing there was that the jury, for whatever reason, was down to nine (which if I am not mistaken is the minimum number that you can have) otherwise a majority verdict would have been acceptable.

Going slightly off topic - this reminds of the American film Twelve Angry Men (somewhere in the late 1950's) where one juror turned the the rest of the jury from a guilty to non guilty verdict.

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Re: Current Affairs

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Kendhni wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 06:48 .

I have said many times that we should stop using "slave labour" for juries ... people who are not paid to be there, who may not understand the evidence, and often do not want to be there. We should use a professional juror system.
Re: Post 13426

I’m absolutely agree with you, especially with regard to some juror’s capability to understand what can be complex issues.

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Onelife wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 08:55
Kendhni wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 06:48 .

I have said many times that we should stop using "slave labour" for juries ... people who are not paid to be there, who may not understand the evidence, and often do not want to be there. We should use a professional juror system.
Re: Post 13426

I’m absolutely agree with you, especially with regard to some juror’s capability to understand what can be complex issues.
The problem with a professional jury panel must surely be the possibility of corruption.
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At least one newspaper has a pic of Comrade Starmer attending an illegal Party ... just saying ;)
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Re: Current Affairs

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The Saturday Mail.
Last edited by Stephen on 15 Jan 2022, 09:59, edited 1 time in total.

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towny44 wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 09:16
Onelife wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 08:55
Kendhni wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 06:48 .

I have said many times that we should stop using "slave labour" for juries ... people who are not paid to be there, who may not understand the evidence, and often do not want to be there. We should use a professional juror system.
Re: Post 13426

I’m absolutely agree with you, especially with regard to some juror’s capability to understand what can be complex issues.
The problem with a professional jury panel must surely be the possibility of corruption.
That of course is possible but that scenario would depend very much on how a professional juror system was set up. Clearly there would need to be rotation of jurors and quit a few of them in order that none of them can get too familiar with each other.

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The problem with a "professional" jury system is that eventually it would just become another part of the legal system and add another extortionate cost. Might just as well leave it up to the judge to award the verdict.

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Re: Current Affairs

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david63 wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 08:46 Going slightly off topic - this reminds of the American film Twelve Angry Men (somewhere in the late 1950's) where one juror turned the the rest of the jury from a guilty to non guilty verdict.
Fantastic movie ... even the 1997 remake wasn't bad (but not as good as the original).
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Re: Current Affairs

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Manoverboard wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 09:45 At least one newspaper has a pic of Comrade Starmer attending an illegal Party ... just saying ;)
That photograph hit the headlines before Christmas but the media failed to make any spin out of it then ... they have been trying to spin it up since Tuesday.

In other news Johnsons has 2 more parties to apologise for next week in his daily apology briefings. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Current Affairs

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Onelife wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 10:17 That of course is possible but that scenario would depend very much on how a professional juror system was set up. Clearly there would need to be rotation of jurors and quite a few of them in order that none of them can get too familiar with each other.
I would see corruption as no more of a risk than with the current system of slave labour jurors.
david63 wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 10:44 The problem with a "professional" jury system is that eventually it would just become another part of the legal system and add another extortionate cost. Might just as well leave it up to the judge to award the verdict.
I wouldn't have a problem with the judges making the decisions (as they do in some courts), but we have this archaic system that says people have a right to be tried in front of their peers. Yes jurors would become another part of the legal system.

A pool of volunteers could be created and paid on a 'usage' basis keeping costs down. The courts release information on trials looking for jurors and people apply. It would also get around cases were defence/prosecution deliberately try to confuse and obfuscate using 'experts'', juror skill base could be more closely matched to the type of trial.
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Kendhni wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 10:52
david63 wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 08:46 Going slightly off topic - this reminds of the American film Twelve Angry Men (somewhere in the late 1950's) where one juror turned the the rest of the jury from a guilty to non guilty verdict.
Fantastic movie ... even the 1997 remake wasn't bad (but not as good as the original).
Did you know that at one time, don't know if it is still the case, that the Post Office bought the rights to the original film and used it for management training?

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I see that the PC police are alive and well in 2022 and coming up with a new batch of edicts - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-59981811

Do these "academics" not have anything better/more productive to do with their time? - perhaps they should get out more, oh no they can't because of Covid!!

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Kendhni wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 10:54
Manoverboard wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 09:45 At least one newspaper has a pic of Comrade Starmer attending an illegal Party ... just saying ;)
That photograph hit the headlines before Christmas but the media failed to make any spin out of it then ... they have been trying to spin it up since Tuesday.

In other news Johnsons has 2 more parties to apologise for next week in his daily apology briefings. :lol: :lol: :lol:
All we need now is a pic of Newspaper Reporters, the Police and your good self having their various parties and the whole thing can then be put to bed :lol: :lol:
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david63 wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 11:28 I see that the PC police are alive and well in 2022 and coming up with a new batch of edicts - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-59981811

Do these "academics" not have anything better/more productive to do with their time? - perhaps they should get out more, oh no they can't because of Covid!!

Hi David…me and the wife were discussing this last night and whilst I agree with you in that you can make a case for many things that could be considered derogatory, we did, on this occasion come to the same view that the word ‘midget’ with its association with dwarfism is a little inappropriate on sweet packaging.

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They used ' Mini ' instead ... Ford should complain I reckon
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Re: Current Affairs

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Is short a*se allowed.

Asking for a friend
Last edited by Stephen on 15 Jan 2022, 12:32, edited 1 time in total.

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#PeopleWhoLiveInGlassHouses

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Kendhni wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 10:54
Manoverboard wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 09:45 At least one newspaper has a pic of Comrade Starmer attending an illegal Party ... just saying ;)
That photograph hit the headlines before Christmas but the media failed to make any spin out of it then ... they have been trying to spin it up since Tuesday.

In other news Johnsons has 2 more parties to apologise for next week in his daily apology briefings. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I think that picture of Starmer has been around since well before Christmas - it smacks of desperation to drag it up now.

It’s really odd that the people who profess not believe the media are now swallowing hook, line and sinker the idea the Starmer was ‘at an illegal party’ without any fact checking.at all.

Those people who are comfortable with the idea that ‘work events are ok’, should have no problems with that photo of Starmer.

With regard to that lot in Downing Street, I think it’d be easier to list the dates that they weren’t partying.
Last edited by Gill W on 15 Jan 2022, 13:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Would that be Christmas 2021 ... ' straws clutching at ' comes to mind :roll:
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Stephen wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 12:31 Is short a*se allowed.

Asking for a friend
Yes! baldy :sarcasm: :wave:

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Gill W »

Manoverboard wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 13:46 Would that be Christmas 2021 ... ' straws clutching at ' comes to mind :roll:
I believe the first time that picture was seen was 1st May 2021, so yes, well before Christmas 2021.

I agree, the media outlets that are exhuming this are clutching at straws
Gill

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Stephen »

Mervyn and Trish wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 13:08 #PeopleWhoLiveInGlassHouses

Get very hot in the summer

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Re: Current Affairs

Post by Stephen »

Onelife wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 13:49
Stephen wrote: 15 Jan 2022, 12:31 Is short a*se allowed. :)

Asking for a friend
Yes! baldy :sarcasm: :wave:

Thank you short a*se :)

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