Current Affairs

[Kendhni]

I fully believe that what you describe has happened many times along with many other failings ... some judges are incompetent, some police are dishonest and incompetent, some (all?) lawyers are dishonest, our system discriminates on gender etc. So I agree our system is not perfect.

I was however thinking about more high profile cases were the media deliberately spin a story. For example in the scenario you present the media could run a story about a highly manipulative woman living of the proceeds of crime, garnering a lot of public anger that could influence the judge and the jurors, who have maybe been told about, and seen, a naïve woman who did not understand what she was doing.

I was friends with a defence lawyer, for many years. We all called him 'John Smith-Defending' because in the papers the reporting always seemed to start with "John Smith, defending, told the court ...". He was very good at his job and, after getting one particularly well known low life off, I remember asking him how he slept at night. He went through a whole rigmarole about the law but the bit that stuck with me went something along the lines of "A guilty person avoids conviction when the prosecution fails to do their job; am innocent person gets convicted when the defence fails to do their job ... those are the ones I lose sleep over".

I have said many times that we should stop using "slave labour" for juries ... people who are not paid to be there, who may not understand the evidence, and often do not want to be there. We should use a professional juror system.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Yes the media spin. But they published photos of protesters on the roof of and glued to the train. Hard to see the spin in that. Hard to see how it's not obstructing the train, which was the charge, whatever the motive. Maybe next time the driver should just set off.

[david63]

I'm sure that I read in one of the early reports on this case that the judge instructed the jury to find them not guilty - but if I did then it is not there any more. If that was what happened then I suspect that it was due to a legal technicality.

In the case that OL describes the unfortunate thing there was that the jury, for whatever reason, was down to nine (which if I am not mistaken is the minimum number that you can have) otherwise a majority verdict would have been acceptable.

Going slightly off topic - this reminds of the American film Twelve Angry Men (somewhere in the late 1950's) where one juror turned the the rest of the jury from a guilty to non guilty verdict.

[Onelife]

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I have said many times that we should stop using "slave labour" for juries ... people who are not paid to be there, who may not understand the evidence, and often do not want to be there. We should use a professional juror system.

Re: Post 13426

I’m absolutely agree with you, especially with regard to some juror’s capability to understand what can be complex issues.

[towny44]

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I have said many times that we should stop using "slave labour" for juries ... people who are not paid to be there, who may not understand the evidence, and often do not want to be there. We should use a professional juror system.

Re: Post 13426

I’m absolutely agree with you, especially with regard to some juror’s capability to understand what can be complex issues.

The problem with a professional jury panel must surely be the possibility of corruption.

[Manoverboard]

At least one newspaper has a pic of Comrade Starmer attending an illegal Party ... just saying

[Stephen]

The Saturday Mail.

[Onelife]

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I have said many times that we should stop using "slave labour" for juries ... people who are not paid to be there, who may not understand the evidence, and often do not want to be there. We should use a professional juror system.

Re: Post 13426

I’m absolutely agree with you, especially with regard to some juror’s capability to understand what can be complex issues.

The problem with a professional jury panel must surely be the possibility of corruption.

That of course is possible but that scenario would depend very much on how a professional juror system was set up. Clearly there would need to be rotation of jurors and quit a few of them in order that none of them can get too familiar with each other.

[david63]

The problem with a "professional" jury system is that eventually it would just become another part of the legal system and add another extortionate cost. Might just as well leave it up to the judge to award the verdict.

[Kendhni]

Going slightly off topic - this reminds of the American film Twelve Angry Men (somewhere in the late 1950's) where one juror turned the the rest of the jury from a guilty to non guilty verdict.

Fantastic movie ... even the 1997 remake wasn't bad (but not as good as the original).

[Kendhni]

At least one newspaper has a pic of Comrade Starmer attending an illegal Party ... just saying

That photograph hit the headlines before Christmas but the media failed to make any spin out of it then ... they have been trying to spin it up since Tuesday.

In other news Johnsons has 2 more parties to apologise for next week in his daily apology briefings.

[Kendhni]

That of course is possible but that scenario would depend very much on how a professional juror system was set up. Clearly there would need to be rotation of jurors and quite a few of them in order that none of them can get too familiar with each other.

I would see corruption as no more of a risk than with the current system of slave labour jurors.

The problem with a "professional" jury system is that eventually it would just become another part of the legal system and add another extortionate cost. Might just as well leave it up to the judge to award the verdict.

I wouldn't have a problem with the judges making the decisions (as they do in some courts), but we have this archaic system that says people have a right to be tried in front of their peers. Yes jurors would become another part of the legal system.

A pool of volunteers could be created and paid on a 'usage' basis keeping costs down. The courts release information on trials looking for jurors and people apply. It would also get around cases were defence/prosecution deliberately try to confuse and obfuscate using 'experts'', juror skill base could be more closely matched to the type of trial.

[david63]

Going slightly off topic - this reminds of the American film Twelve Angry Men (somewhere in the late 1950's) where one juror turned the the rest of the jury from a guilty to non guilty verdict.

Fantastic movie ... even the 1997 remake wasn't bad (but not as good as the original).

Did you know that at one time, don't know if it is still the case, that the Post Office bought the rights to the original film and used it for management training?

[david63]

I see that the PC police are alive and well in 2022 and coming up with a new batch of edicts - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-59981811

Do these "academics" not have anything better/more productive to do with their time? - perhaps they should get out more, oh no they can't because of Covid!!

[Manoverboard]

At least one newspaper has a pic of Comrade Starmer attending an illegal Party ... just saying

That photograph hit the headlines before Christmas but the media failed to make any spin out of it then ... they have been trying to spin it up since Tuesday.

In other news Johnsons has 2 more parties to apologise for next week in his daily apology briefings.

All we need now is a pic of Newspaper Reporters, the Police and your good self having their various parties and the whole thing can then be put to bed

[Onelife]

I see that the PC police are alive and well in 2022 and coming up with a new batch of edicts - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-m ... e-59981811

Do these "academics" not have anything better/more productive to do with their time? - perhaps they should get out more, oh no they can't because of Covid!!

Hi David…me and the wife were discussing this last night and whilst I agree with you in that you can make a case for many things that could be considered derogatory, we did, on this occasion come to the same view that the word ‘midget’ with its association with dwarfism is a little inappropriate on sweet packaging.

[Manoverboard]

They used ' Mini ' instead ... Ford should complain I reckon

[Stephen]

Is short a*se allowed.

Asking for a friend

[Mervyn and Trish]

#PeopleWhoLiveInGlassHouses

[Gill W]

At least one newspaper has a pic of Comrade Starmer attending an illegal Party ... just saying

That photograph hit the headlines before Christmas but the media failed to make any spin out of it then ... they have been trying to spin it up since Tuesday.

In other news Johnsons has 2 more parties to apologise for next week in his daily apology briefings.

I think that picture of Starmer has been around since well before Christmas - it smacks of desperation to drag it up now.

It’s really odd that the people who profess not believe the media are now swallowing hook, line and sinker the idea the Starmer was ‘at an illegal party’ without any fact checking.at all.

Those people who are comfortable with the idea that ‘work events are ok’, should have no problems with that photo of Starmer.

With regard to that lot in Downing Street, I think it’d be easier to list the dates that they weren’t partying.

[Manoverboard]

Would that be Christmas 2021 ... ' straws clutching at ' comes to mind

[Onelife]

Is short a*se allowed.

Asking for a friend

Yes! baldy

[Gill W]

Would that be Christmas 2021 ... ' straws clutching at ' comes to mind

I believe the first time that picture was seen was 1st May 2021, so yes, well before Christmas 2021.

I agree, the media outlets that are exhuming this are clutching at straws

[Stephen]

#PeopleWhoLiveInGlassHouses

Get very hot in the summer

[Stephen]

Is short a*se allowed.

Asking for a friend

Yes! baldy

Thank you short a*se