Current Affairs

[towny44]

I would say the majority of people bent the rules when it suited them

I consider myself to be one who pushes the boundaries but, on this occasion, I must be in the minority then because I can’t recall breaking any covid rules and I certainly didn’t have any drinks parties.

I assume that you like me no longer work, or at least dont put in a 9-5 stint, or longer, at the office. In which case you wont be out and about driving to work, regularly filling up your car with petrol, or on public transport, and calling in at Starbucks on the way into the office for your first caffeine fix. So you will have had very few opportunities to fudge the rules, or even ignore them completely. It's been very easy for most of us to obey the rules, so we have no way to compare how those still working have coped, but I guess they felt a lot more stressed than we did.

[Onelife]

I would say the majority of people bent the rules when it suited them

I consider myself to be one who pushes the boundaries but, on this occasion, I must be in the minority then because I can’t recall breaking any covid rules and I certainly didn’t have any drinks parties.

I assume that you like me no longer work, or at least dont put in a 9-5 stint, or longer, at the office. In which case you wont be out and about driving to work, regularly filling up your car with petrol, or on public transport, and calling in at Starbucks on the way into the office for your first caffeine fix. So you will have had very few opportunities to fudge the rules, or even ignore them completely. It's been very easy for most of us to obey the rules, so we have no way to compare how those still working have coped, but I guess they felt a lot more stressed than we did.

Your assumptions are correct John apart from knowing how one person who is still working has coped. Our daughter works for a large organisation which has implemented throughout the restriction a work regime that complied with all stipulated rules. They are still implementing some of the rules as a precaution, mask wearing between work stations, and spaced seating. I acknowledge that these working conditions have created stressful situations, not only in the work place but particularly in their social lives, and particularly so for our daughter who moved to the other side of the country having no social contacts friendship groups other than those she had before taking up her post. She has travelled within the permitted travel restriction to meet up with her friends but like her friends she has done so within the rules. I think the same goes for many of her age group, who have made a choice to stick to the rules in order to protect their parents/grandparents etc. Indeed, I think the majority of working people, have as far as possible, done the same which is why I disagree with Ken about his presumption that the majority of us have chosen to flaunt the rules.

[Stephen]

And the general consensus is..?

They abused their positions thinking they can do what they like and get away with it. Whether they will remains to be seen.

I doubt that Downing Street was the only office where some sort of Xmas parties took place. I imagine most offsite partying was cancelled but unless things have changed dramatically in the last 20 years I am sure some drinks and maybe even music was enjoyed by staff, who could not work from home, in very many organisations.
Whilst I agree these were technically against covid rules, if they were not reported at the time, then they would not have had any detrimental influence on how others behaved. So despite Sir Hindsight and the media highlighting every single death and funeral where relatives were unable to say their respectful farewells, to emphasise, in their view just how wicked and selfish the govt were being.
I realise that I am in a fairly small minority in not being overly concerned with these govt misdemeanors over Xmas, and even with leaving parties. However if they led to some light relief for the staff during a stressful working period, then maybe it helped the govt staff to decide to move more rapidly to relax covid restrictions for the general public, which IMO is most definitely the correct way to go.

I agree John, but they aren’t running the country, making the rules and leading, or should be by example.

[Kendhni]

Social media is a bit of a hoot this morning.
Many of the Boris sycophants are now back pedalling furiously, desperately trying to distance themselves from previous obsequiousness, pretending that they did not really support him, pretending they could see through him, pretending he was not their choice etc. etc. (obviously desperately hoping that others have short memories and forgetting that people can read back). I always believed that what todays conservatives lack in integrity they more than made up for in cowardice.

Incredibly powerful speeches from Teresa May and Aaron Bell yesterday ... but yet Johnson still shows no genuine shame during his daily apology briefings. Some of Johnsons comments yesterday shows he totally lacks any morality.

It also does not seem right that someone who speaks the truth in the HoC is evicted while the liar is allowed to remain. But that is the system we seem to be so proud of.

[Kendhni]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/sue-gray-repo ... 18273.html
Duh no, you broke the law and got what you deserved.
The issue is about making sure that those that thought they were above the law also receive the relevant penalties.

[david63]

I think the majority of working people, have as far as possible, done the same which is why I disagree with Ken about his presumption that the majority of us have chosen to flaunt the rules.

That may be your personal experience but it certainly is not mine. There have been numerous breaches of Covid rules in our area by both working and retired folk.

Hand on heart I cannot say that I have not broken any Covid rules - but if I have then they were only minor transgressions.

[Onelife]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/sue-gray-repo ... 18273.html
Duh no, you broke the law and got what you deserved.
The issue is about making sure that those that thought they were above the law also receive the relevant penalties.

Precisely!!

[Onelife]

I think the majority of working people, have as far as possible, done the same which is why I disagree with Ken about his presumption that the majority of us have chosen to flaunt the rules.

That may be your personal experience but it certainly is not mine. There have been numerous breaches of Covid rules in our area by both working and retired folk.

Hand on heart I cannot say that I have not broken any Covid rules - but if I have then they were only minor transgressions.

Tut! Tut! ….

I’m trying to think back and remember if I had any little infringements and as yet nothing comes to the fore.
I’m sure little infringements have occurred but I do think the majority tried to keep within the rules, this is certainly my experience, but accept that having locked myself down for months on end I may not have witnessed as many rule breakers such as yourself.

[Gill W]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/sue-gray-repo ... 18273.html
Duh no, you broke the law and got what you deserved.
The issue is about making sure that those that thought they were above the law also receive the relevant penalties.

I’m not sure if it’s that they thought they were above the law - I tend to think that they know the law applies to them but they simply don’t care, and partied on regardless

I agree John, but they aren’t running the country, making the rules and leading, or should be by example.

At Christmas 2020 most office workers were still working from home, so they simply wouldn’t have had a chance to have office parties. If anybody did manage to have a drink at their desk with their colleagues, it would unlikely have been on the scale or what happened in Downing Street, with multiple parties and suitcases of booze being wheeled in. They didn’t just break the law, they stuck two fingers up at it, and all of us.

[Manoverboard]

Politicians of every colour have transgressed and then lied about it, be they Northern Irish, Scots, Welsh, Liberal, Tories and of course worst of all there was Labour. Most instances were about saving themselves but it could be argued that Boris turned a blind eye and then lied to project his mainly loyal Civil Servants.

Having blood on their hands, fraternising with prostitutes and Russian Spies, being charged with a number of counts of abuse / rape, authorising mass murder in a foreign land is nothing when compared to being involved in a few Parties.

Just a thought.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Politicians of every colour have transgressed and then lied about it, be they Northern Irish, Scots, Welsh, Liberal, Tories and of course worst of all there was Labour. Most instances were about saving themselves but it could be argued that Boris turned a blind eye and then lied to project his mainly loyal Civil Servants.

Having blood on their hands, fraternising with prostitutes and Russian Spies, being charged with a number of counts of abuse / rape, authorising mass murder in a foreign land is nothing when compared to being involved in a few Parties.

Just a thought.

Ah but they didn't deliver Brexit so they can be forgiven and forgotten.

[Ray B]

Is it the new thing when going to a room with a famous person that a woman starts to record what happens, I assume covertly. Afterwards, posting it on social media alleging rape. I make no judgment, but the recording of the football player with the woman recorded at 'their' get together, sounds a bit false. The recording is available to all on YouTube.
Another police investigation to wait for the Outcome.
Anyone found guilty of rape deserves the full weight of the law in sentencing.
The same should apply to the person if found to be making false allegations.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I agree Ray. Rape is a dreadful crime and should be punished harshly. But false accusations are also life destroying for the accused.

It's hard to see how cases like this one can be tried fairly. Posting one side of the story on line means that members of a subsequent jury may be influenced by what they've seen and heard outside the courtroom. That is contempt of court. If someone does decide to record a "meeting" for their protection the right thing to do if they have a concern is take the footage to the police, not publish it. I can't prejudge the outcome of the case but the way it's come about is disturbing.

[Kendhni]

https://uk.yahoo.com/news/sue-gray-repo ... 18273.html
Duh no, you broke the law and got what you deserved.
The issue is about making sure that those that thought they were above the law also receive the relevant penalties.

I’m not sure if it’s that they thought they were above the law - I tend to think that they know the law applies to them but they simply don’t care, and partied on regardless

Reading around various comment sections across the internet, it appears the only defence the Boris boot lickers have is to say 'look what somebody else did' ... you would tell a child off for using such a stupid infantile argument ... but it appears that is all that the Johnson toadys can come up with. Pathetic.

[Manoverboard]

Actually I would very happily explain to my children and/or grand children that Boris did wrong but I would also try to explain that other political Parties and their Leaders have done things too. In this way they would not rush into unbalanced conclusions, nor would they become vindictive or bigoted as a consequence of focusing on the single issue.

[oldbluefox]

Some people cannot accept that Boris is not the only one. Their near perfect world must have been wonderful until Boris came along and spoilt it. Boris wasn't the first and he won't be the last.

[david63]

I see that Ms Kuenssberg has rewritten the Sue Gray report to suit her, or the BEEB's, agenda.

It is there now in black and white for all to see - there was rule breaking at the top of government when the country was living through lockdown.

(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60208740)
Now can someone show where in the report that is said - because I cannot see it. All that has been said in the report is that there were "gatherings".

Also the media have been very good at overlooking the point in the report where Sue Gray actually agrees that holding meetings in the garden was a sensible idea, although she did add some caveats.

[Kendhni]

At this point I would agree with you, the language used in the report is very diplomatic .. but the report has had the heart totally ripped out of it so I think it is wrong for any journalist, or any one else, to draw conclusions ... unless she is actually referring to the full report (which may have been seen under journalistic privilege)

[Kendhni]

Some people cannot accept that Boris is not the only one. Their near perfect world must have been wonderful until Boris came along and spoilt it. Boris wasn't the first and he won't be the last.

So the defence for Johnson seem to revolve around infantile arguments saying 'well somebody else did it' and a strawman of made up nonsense.

Seriously has anybody got a sensible argument defending a prime minister who clearly (even for him) overstepped the mark yesterday?
The lackies rolled out for todays interviews made fools of themselves ... they actually sounded more like Johnson with their bumbling and blustering attempts to answer questions.

[barney]

I personally have no issues with Johnson constantly rewriting the truth because that’s what he has always done.
He’s just acting in character.
What has amazed me is the amount of so called serious politicians who are bumbling about on various media outlets trying to defend him.
There is no way in a million years I’d put my reputation on the line simply to defend the indefensible.
I was speaking with my MP yesterday and she just looked totally embarrassed by the entire situation.
She was a long time councillor before becoming an MP and is well respected by most, despite political differences.
She’s just remaining schtum!

[david63]

it is wrong for any journalist, or any one else, to draw conclusions

But that is exactly what everyone is doing.

which may have been seen under journalistic privilege

In which case she should know better than to mention it

[Mervyn and Trish]

At this point I would agree with you, the language used in the report is very diplomatic .. but the report has had the heart totally ripped out of it so I think it is wrong for any journalist, or any one else, to draw conclusions ... unless she is actually referring to the full report (which may have been seen under journalistic privilege)

There is no such thing as journalistic privilege in this context and no way she has seen what has not yet been released to MPs.

So I would agree with you. At this stage it is entirely wrong to draw conclusions on what has so far not been published.

There is no doubt the headlines in the report are very serious. But there are plenty of journalists, politicians and others extrapolating what is not there to suit their own narrative.

The way some are still demanding Boris's mmediate resignation one could easily think they are worried the police investigation and full report when it comes will not suit their cause.

Let's wait and see eh? There's a reason judges do not ask for the jury's verdict half way through the evidence.

[barney]

When Chauvin came to trial for murder, it became obvious after the first day of evidence that he was guilty.
Why?
Because it was all caught on camera.
We are not talking about one or two indiscretions here, there were sixteen separate occasions where the law was broken.
Rightly so, it is now being investigated by the police.
All of this happened on Johnson’s watch.
He cannot possibly survive this.
It’s just a matter of when.

[Mervyn and Trish]

All of this happened on Johnson’s watch.
He cannot possibly survive this.
It’s just a matter of when.

I'm sure you're right Barney. But I'd still prefer we had all the evidence sorted rather than the alleged's that currently remain.

Anyway it'll give Sir Hindsight time to come up with some policies other than "I'm not Boris. I wouldn't have done that".

[david63]

there were sixteen separate occasions where the law was broke

We do not know that for a fact yet - 12 of those are being investigated by the police.