Current Affairs

[Manoverboard]

So, he accepts that Virginia was abused

Yeah. Just not by him. Because he's never met her.

In Royal Circles one has to be formally introduced to say that one has met another one .... surely.

If it was dark and said scrubber young lady was eagerly waiting for him in the Purple Room then he may have given her one but he would not have actually met her ... would he ?

[Gill W]

Merv, just what was he guilty of? Having sex with someone over 16 is not illegal and I dont believe rape has been mentioned at all, so possibly a lack of judgement, not sure that that is sufficient for the comments you, keith and Ken have made. Or am I just too broad minded.

Here's what he's accused of.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58871849

It's not OK is it?


As a general observation, there are some really unpleasant comments on this thread, and the victim blaming that I have seen is exactly the reason why victims of sex crimes don't come forward, as they know they risk being judged more harshly than the perpetrators

[Mervyn and Trish]

You're right Barney. I have made an assumption. But when his defence was he'd never met her and then he did everything he could to find a legal loophole and then he said he was going to clear his name and then he stumped up all makes me suspicious. At the very least he's guilty of very poor judgement in the company he kept. I admire what he did in the Falklands but since then his actions have smacked of someone with a huge sense of entitlement. I have no sympathy for him. He's lucky he, or his Mum, has the resources to make it go away.

Merv, just what was he guilty of? Having sex with someone over 16 is not illegal and I dont believe rape has been mentioned at all, so possibly a lack of judgement, not sure that that is sufficient for the comments you, keith and Ken have made. Or am I just too broad minded.

He was accused of sexually abusing her when she was being trafficked for sex. If you think that is okay you are too broad minded. He is legally guilty of nothing because the case never came to court. He bought off his accuser, having claimed he had never met her. I think that iustifies some scepticism.

[barney]

It’s certainly not ok if it’s true but we’ll never know now will we.
She’s rich and he’s in disgrace.

[anniec]

Merv, just what was he guilty of? Having sex with someone over 16 is not illegal and I dont believe rape has been mentioned at all, so possibly a lack of judgement, not sure that that is sufficient for the comments you, keith and Ken have made. Or am I just too broad minded.

Here's what he's accused of.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-58871849

It's not OK is it?


As a general observation, there are some really unpleasant comments on this thread, and the victim blaming that I have seen is exactly the reason why victims of sex crimes don't come forward, as they know they risk being judged more harshly than the perpetrators

It most certainly is not.

Indeed - could someone remind me what century we're in? Some moral compasses seem to have gone missing.

[Kendhni]

Wouldn't it be nice if these bankers gave their bonuses, or a significant percentage, to the front line staff that have worked so hard during this pandemic.
https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/news/ve-ha ... 06397.html

[screwy]

I must admit that some of the comments about the young girl,and at 17 she was a young girl border on being distasteful.

I had the good fortune of being able to Lock up 5 of the Rochdale 9,I will add that it gave me great pleasure in doing so.

There is nothing nice in young girls being groomed.

[Kendhni]

Indeed - could someone remind me what century we're in? Some moral compasses seem to have gone missing.

For some reason, our current society takes one step forward but it then takes two steps backwards elsewhere.
There is a growing lack of morality in many aspects, but worse there is a growing lack of honesty ... with acceptance being driven by 'who' rather than 'what'.

Oldies like to point the finger at the younger generation, but it equally, if not more so, applies to the older generation (they should know better).

[Ray B]

So the agreement to settle, has denied the media of what they were looking forward to, that is weeks of front page reporting from the court. But as is usually the case, they then find another angle. How is he going to pay.
As long as no money comes from the public purse, that is his problem, what is that to do with the press.
The media are calling for details of the settlement,. I thought the the details were confidential between the two parties. The media must feel cheated, but will still keep up the pressure for a juicy story.
It's becoming a bore, move on to more important things. I have had enough.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Let's get back k to Cakegate

[Ray B]

Exactly Merv. You have to hand it to to Met, they have the government in the torcher chamber, the Royal family in the Interrogation suite and countless metropolitan police departments on the rack.. All this must be costing hundreds of thousands, and all the time criminals can continue to ply their trade unabated.

[Onelife]

I must admit that some of the comments about the young girl,and at 17 she was a young girl border on being distasteful.

I had the good fortune of being able to Lock up 5 of the Rochdale 9,I will add that it gave me great pleasure in doing so.

There is nothing nice in young girls being groomed.

See it as a perk of the job Screwy.

As for your other comments they get a from me.

[Manoverboard]

As a general observation, there are some really unpleasant comments on this thread, and the victim blaming that I have seen is exactly the reason why victims of sex crimes don't come forward, as they know they risk being judged more harshly than the perpetrators

My own observations were that Prince Andrew was being hung out to dry by most of you, I simply added some balance because I do not accept that she was an entirely innocent party. I do accept however that she was under age and he should pay the price for his poor judgement.

[barney]

She wasn’t under age Moby.
That’s a myth as is the headline in the Mail that he raped her.
What we actually have is a dirty old forty year old who had it offered on a plate with an attractive seventeen year old and he succumbed.
So, he’s a dirty old man.

[Onelife]

She wasn’t under age Moby.
That’s a myth as is the headline in the Mail that he raped her.
What we actually have is a dirty old forty year old who had it offered on a plate with an attractive seventeen year old and he succumbed.
So, he’s a dirty old man.

Guffre, an alleged victim of Epstein, says she was forced to perform sex acts with Andrew.
She says she was trafficked by Epstein and forced to have sex with his friends - including the prince - at a time when she was underage (17) in the US.
Giuffre says the assaults happened in London, New York and the US Virgin Islands, that Andrew was aware she was a minor at the time, and that she had been trafficked by Epstein.

7 news .com

[oldbluefox]

I think there are more questions than answers and the trial would have exposed something closer to the truth.

[Manoverboard]

She wasn’t under age Moby.
That’s a myth as is the headline in the Mail that he raped her.
What we actually have is a dirty old forty year old who had it offered on a plate with an attractive seventeen year old and he succumbed.
So, he’s a dirty old man.

Guffre, an alleged victim of Epstein, says she was forced to perform sex acts with Andrew.
She says she was trafficked by Epstein and forced to have sex with his friends - including the prince - at a time when she was underage (17) in the US.
Giuffre says the assaults happened in London, New York and the US Virgin Islands, that Andrew was aware she was a minor at the time, and that she had been trafficked by Epstein.

7 news .com

I'm with Barney on this one.

You say " She was ' forced ' in London, New York and the ( somewhat ill named ) Virgin Islands."

She didn't think of saying NO or not turning up then, I am not personally aware that she was drug dependent so is there not a possibility that she was actually enjoying all the attention.

[Onelife]

As a general observation, there are some really unpleasant comments on this thread, and the victim blaming that I have seen is exactly the reason why victims of sex crimes don't come forward, as they know they risk being judged more harshly than the perpetrators

My own observations were that Prince Andrew was being hung out to dry by most of you, I simply added some balance because I do not accept that she was an entirely innocent party. I do accept however that she was under age and he should pay the price for his poor judgement.

So, the question we have to ask ourselves was she a willing participant or was she cajoled into believing this was the life that a 17-year-old girl should expect if she wants the nicer things in life?
I’m sure for a girl of her age it must have been very flattering to be surrounded with things that most young girls can only dream about, especially those from dysfunctional family upbringings like hers.

I think what we have here is a lady who has now reflected back on her life and now regrets that she was naive enough to think these people had her best interests at heart. I dare say she did go along with the lifestyle which was presented to her, which, incidentally is where I would imagine the mental grooming comes into play.

So, taking into consideration her early life circumstances I’m not convinced she would have been in the right frame of mind (at 17) to make informed decisions about the rights or wrongs of what she was being asked to do… it is for this reason, and my opinion that those who should have known better are perused through the courts in order that dirty old men from privileged/powerful backgrounds don’t get their own way without paying for it…did you see what I did there?

[towny44]

She wasn’t under age Moby.
That’s a myth as is the headline in the Mail that he raped her.
What we actually have is a dirty old forty year old who had it offered on a plate with an attractive seventeen year old and he succumbed.
So, he’s a dirty old man.

Guffre, an alleged victim of Epstein, says she was forced to perform sex acts with Andrew.
She says she was trafficked by Epstein and forced to have sex with his friends - including the prince - at a time when she was underage (17) in the US.
Giuffre says the assaults happened in London, New York and the US Virgin Islands, that Andrew was aware she was a minor at the time, and that she had been trafficked by Epstein.

7 news .com

We all know what she says OL, but like Moby I dont believe she was forcibly trafficked. She was young and I imagine she was tempted by the glamour of it all, however even if she didnt fully understand what was expected of her initially, she certainly did after the first occasion in London, that is if Andrew even was the first. But she still kept returning for more, and I have heard nothing in the Ghislane Maxwell trial to indicate that she or any of the other girls involved were kept locked up and not allowed any freedom. She had ample time to decide not to continue as a "paid" escort, but chose not to. Do I approve of what Andrew did, of course not but I know it happens, just as it always has, and presumably still does.
If the police in the US felt they had any chance of a conviction for any of the offences Andrew is being judged guilty of by the media, then they would have issued an international arrest for him. We all know the bar in civil actions is far lower than in criminal cases, and this is the loophole that Giuffre has used to win herself yet another big pay day.

[Onelife]

Of course, she wasn’t forcibly trafficked it was mental grooming which is how most of these traffickers get their prey.

[Onelife]

She wasn’t under age Moby.
That’s a myth as is the headline in the Mail that he raped her.
What we actually have is a dirty old forty year old who had it offered on a plate with an attractive seventeen year old and he succumbed.
So, he’s a dirty old man.

Guffre, an alleged victim of Epstein, says she was forced to perform sex acts with Andrew.
She says she was trafficked by Epstein and forced to have sex with his friends - including the prince - at a time when she was underage (17) in the US.
Giuffre says the assaults happened in London, New York and the US Virgin Islands, that Andrew was aware she was a minor at the time, and that she had been trafficked by Epstein.

7 news .com

If the police in the US felt they had any chance of a conviction for any of the offences Andrew is being judged guilty of by the media, then they would have issued an international arrest for him.

And he would have been forcibly trafficked back to face the charges? You're having a laugh ain't ya?

[towny44]

Guffre, an alleged victim of Epstein, says she was forced to perform sex acts with Andrew.
She says she was trafficked by Epstein and forced to have sex with his friends - including the prince - at a time when she was underage (17) in the US.
Giuffre says the assaults happened in London, New York and the US Virgin Islands, that Andrew was aware she was a minor at the time, and that she had been trafficked by Epstein.

7 news .com

If the police in the US felt they had any chance of a conviction for any of the offences Andrew is being judged guilty of by the media, then they would have issued an international arrest for him.

And he would have been forcibly trafficked back to face the charges? You're having a laugh ain't ya?

Our Queen may be well respected and admired in the US, but I dont believe the firm have any sway over the running of how the US police issue arrest warrants. Whether the UK would have acquiesced to the request is different matter. I am just saying what would have happened if there was enough evidence.

[Kendhni]

Under the terms of their agreement, Andrew is no longer allowed to deny that he raped Giuffre.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I've not yet received my copy. But I imagine that neither party is allowed to say anything more about it.

[oldbluefox]

We all know what she says OL, but like Moby I dont believe she was forcibly trafficked. She was young and I imagine she was tempted by the glamour of it all, however even if she didnt fully understand what was expected of her initially, she certainly did after the first occasion in London, that is if Andrew even was the first. But she still kept returning for more, and I have heard nothing in the Ghislane Maxwell trial to indicate that she or any of the other girls involved were kept locked up and not allowed any freedom. She had ample time to decide not to continue as a "paid" escort, but chose not to. Do I approve of what Andrew did, of course not but I know it happens, just as it always has, and presumably still does.
If the police in the US felt they had any chance of a conviction for any of the offences Andrew is being judged guilty of by the media, then they would have issued an international arrest for him. We all know the bar in civil actions is far lower than in criminal cases, and this is the loophole that Giuffre has used to win herself yet another big pay day.

I tend to agree. I don't think she was as innocent in this tawdry affair as some would have us believe. She was free to turn away if she so wished and move away from this glamorous lifestyle mixing with a prince and some very wealthy people in exotic locations.