Current Affairs

[towny44]

Even outside of the Tories I struggle to find a true leader for this country.

And therein lies the dilemma. Whatever the problems of the Tories the alternatives are worse.

I would have thought that Ken would have been able to think of at least one honest upright incorruptible potential candidate, or does he not want the job?

[Kendhni]

Having watched many of Johnsons daily "apologise for being caught" briefings, yesterdays was his most cringeworthy. He didn't even pretend to be sincere, he was just reading from a script that, looking at his body language, he obviously had not even read before reading it on air. Even he looked uncomfortable with the content.

I had hoped that Sunak might still have had some integrity and stepped down, but after 7 hours of silence he also decided that integrity was not required to be a politician. I guess while there are those willing to accept such low standards from their political representatives, the levels of corruption of this government will not be addressed.

The furious back pedalling of the lackies continues with their favourite straw-clutch being the situation in Ukraine ... it's not as if we have never changed PM during a war before.

[Kendhni]

Of course there's no evidence but you only have to listen and watch to form an opinion and my opinion is that the alternatives are worse than the current incumbents and I don't agree with everything they do.

I wouldn't take you to be a poster who just makes everything up (we call them 'towny's).

So I am sure that opinion is based on some form of evidence or fact, it would be interesting to know what that was. I have seen Starmer better Johnson in PM questions (you know when that happens because Johnson goes into bluster mode mumbling incoherent sentences), I have also seen Johnson better Starmer (you can tell by Starmer putting on his face of thunder). I have heard so little from Davey that it is hard to tell much about what he stands for, and the likes of Blackford, Donaldson and Saville Roberts are more focussed on local rather than national issues. Finally, Lucas is a bit of a one-trick-pony, but she is good at that 'trick'.

On the other hand the Labour site has laid out a lot of clear plans and strategies for the future, whereas the conservatives 'play it by ear' and do not appear to have any substantive plans or strategies (which sort of fits in with Johnson's 'reactive agile' approach to everything).

As Andrew Pierce said this morning. 'politicians are amoral'. I would probably agree with him, but also think it is a sad reflection of the low quality of the current crop of political representatives. I am almost begging for any politician from any party to stand up and show he represents the people instead of themselves .... maybe Zelensky would like to come over here and stand.

[david63]

The way that I see it is:

Did Boris mislead Parliament? - from the evidence then the answer is yes
Did Boris knowingly mislead Parliament? - that is a matter for Boris's conscience and only he knows the answer to that, unless some further evidence (Sue Gray?) is produced.

As far as I am concerned the attending of a "party" is a minor offence in the same way as a speeding ticket is a minor offence both of which are dealt with by issuing a fixed penalty notice.

Have any other PMs ever broken the law? Apparently none that have been sufficiently significant to be made public, or that they have been caught out doing so.

As for the outrage from those who have lost relatives during lockdowns and were not able to be with them they should, in my opinion, "get over it". There are many who are not able, for many reasons, to be with loved ones at the end of their life - it is a fact of death.

[Kendhni]

Did Boris mislead Parliament? - from the evidence then the answer is yes
Did Boris knowingly mislead Parliament? - that is a matter for Boris's conscience and only he knows the answer to that, unless some further evidence (Sue Gray?) is produced.

I agree, and I think Johnson will clutch at the word 'knowingly'. The problem is, that for him to claim that he was misled, means he has to admit that he failed to manage his own staff and was gullible enough to believe what he was being told without carrying out a proper investigation (something he tried to claim he did) ... that then means that more civil service heads will need to roll ... but then Johnson is known for throwing anyone and everyone under the bus to save himself.

[towny44]

Of course there's no evidence but you only have to listen and watch to form an opinion and my opinion is that the alternatives are worse than the current incumbents and I don't agree with everything they do.

I wouldn't take you to be a poster who just makes everything up (we call them 'towny's).

So I am sure that opinion is based on some form of evidence or fact, it would be interesting to know what that was. I have seen Starmer better Johnson in PM questions (you know when that happens because Johnson goes into bluster mode mumbling incoherent sentences), I have also seen Johnson better Starmer (you can tell by Starmer putting on his face of thunder). I have heard so little from Davey that it is hard to tell much about what he stands for, and the likes of Blackford, Donaldson and Saville Roberts are more focussed on local rather than national issues. Finally, Lucas is a bit of a one-trick-pony, but she is good at that 'trick'.

On the other hand the Labour site has laid out a lot of clear plans and strategies for the future, whereas the conservatives 'play it by ear' and do not appear to have any substantive plans or strategies (which sort of fits in with Johnson's 'reactive agile' approach to everything).

As Andrew Pierce said this morning. 'politicians are amoral'. I would probably agree with him, but also think it is a sad reflection of the low quality of the current crop of political representatives. I am almost begging for any politician from any party to stand up and show he represents the people instead of themselves .... maybe Zelensky would like to come over here and stand.

Thanks for the compliment Ken, it's much appreciated.
However one vital point you fail to address is how Labour, or the Lib Dems for that matter, intend to pay for all their generous largesse, especially if they dont intend to raise taxes but reduce them to help with the current cost of living crisis. Because there is only so much borrowing any govt can do, if Labour did get in and implemented all their generous plans, we would very soon end up borrowing just to pay back the interest on our loans.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Some don't like it if Sir Hindsight is mentioned, maybe they realise he is utterly inadequate as a leader of the opposition.

The purpose of the opposition is not just to oppose for opposition's sake, which he said he wouldn't do but does all the time. Oops. Is that a lie? Surely not.

It is to offer a realistic alternative. Which he doesn't do. Because we still have no idea what he actually stands for. Please don't point me to Google or the Labour website. That's not what the majority of voters do. They want digestible soundbites other than I'm not Boris and I wouldn't have done that.

I say we don't know what he stands for. But if his choice of deputy is a clue he's somewhere left of Corbyn and pretty unpleasant.

[Kendhni]

However one vital point you fail to address is how Labour, or the Lib Dems for that matter, intend to pay for all their generous largesse, especially if they dont intend to raise taxes but reduce them to help with the current cost of living crisis. Because there is only so much borrowing any govt can do, if Labour did get in and implemented all their generous plans, we would very soon end up borrowing just to pay back the interest on our loans.

Pleased to see you have gone for debating the point instead of ad hominems.
It is a good point especially since in the last decade the government has run up a huge amount of debt (the debt has gone from just under £1 trillion in 2010 to an estimated £2.3 trillion today ... that is pre Ukraine expenditure) and so far has not really come up with any plans on how to pay it back (beyond the recent introduction of an increased tax on workers to help fund the NHS). So I think the magic money tree has been well and truly shaken bare by Johnson.

This is one of those scenarios where I would like to see all parties working collaboratively and looking for a cross party solution in reducing this level of debt. That is unlikely to happen each party will look after its 'own'.

Labour actually does have a stated plan available through its website and has been promoted by Reeves. It is reasonably predictable and involves increasing taxation, especially of the wealthy, shelving some current plans and increasing spending elsewhere (which could be good or bad). The problem is there is nothing to compare it with ... the Tory's (who should have a plan) either do not have one, or are playing it very close to their chest (which is somewhat worrying).

[Kendhni]

In post 15076 I was wondering what Johnson would pull out of his sleeve to distract from his misleading the house ... now we know!

[towny44]

In post 15076 I was wondering what Johnson would pull out of his sleeve to distract from his misleading the house ... now we know!

I'm all agog, what was it???

[david63]

now we know!

No we don't

[Kendhni]

Its all over the media and front page news on most papers ... even some of the tory press has comments about the 'timing' and saying it is not following the 'normal procedure' for a government to announce policy (I guess he needed to get something/anything out there quickly) ... not properly costed and not agreed by either house.

[david63]

Its all over the media and front page news on most papers ... even some of the tory press has comments about the 'timing' and saying it is not following the 'normal procedure' for a government to announce policy (I guess he needed to get something/anything out there quickly) ... not properly costed and not agreed by either house.

Ken stop talking in riddles and give us a link

[Kendhni]

Ken stop talking in riddles and give us a link

I think you know full well the answer to that one ... Johnson has realised that the people are not falling for his lies this time so he came up with a doozy (all credit to him, reusing a tactic that worked so well before).

[Manoverboard]

The Welsh Secretary says it's not in the public interest to have a leadership campaign ...

Boris is safe it would appear in spite of the millions dozens of Boris haters out there.

[Kendhni]

Boris should go it would appear in spite of the millions dozens of Boris butt kissers out there.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Boris should go it would appear in spite of the millions dozens of Boris butt kissers out there.

Great link. Even half of your selected story says the opposite to your summary.

[Kendhni]

Boris should go it would appear in spite of the millions dozens of Boris butt kissers out there.

Great link. Even half of your selected story says the opposite to your summary.

Indeed I chose that one deliberately to show both side of the story, those that have integrity and the Boris butt kissers.
I could have picked one of the poll stories that said two thirds of people think Johnson is doing a bad job; or the one that said 57% think he should resign .. but I know you only like polls that say what you want them to say.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I refer you to my post 15082. I think my position on Boris was stated pretty clearly there. No butt kissing. A hideous thought to be honest. Although I realise that Boris Bashers regard anything less than demands to boil his head in oil as high treason.

[Kendhni]

Across social media I have noticed many of the Johnson fanbois trying to distance themselves from him until they see how this rides out. If he holds on they will be back in his corner accepting incredibly low standards in public life; if he resigns they will say 'I was never a fan'. As usual I think he has so little integrity or shame he will be able to ride this out ... as above he has dredged up a real doozy to distract from his inability to be honest, and it appears to be working (despite being very transparent).

[Manoverboard]

Boris should go it would appear in spite of the millions dozens of Boris butt kissers out there.

A point to consider however is that Nigel Mills ( who ) stole his Amber Valley seat in Derbyshire from a long standing Labour MP so could it possibly be that he's Boris bashing just to keep on the left right side of his potentially fickle constituents come the next election

[Kendhni]

A point to consider however is that Nigel Mills ( who ) stole his Amber Valley seat in Derbyshire from a long standing Labour MP so could it possibly be that he's Boris bashing just to keep on the left right side of his potentially fickle constituents come the next election

Very possibly ... the Tories are all over the place at the minute. I notice that one senior Tory, whose name escapes me, had said Johnson should resign, but says now is not the time. I also notice Fabricant (does he wear Johnsons reject wigs?) has been very defensive of Johnson; while others still maintain he should resign ... the bottom line is that if he misled the house he MUST offer his resignation, under parliamentary rules.

The worst comment, for me, came from Eggwina Curry who said 'I don't care' ... it may be mountains and molehills (as I have said before), but many in the electorate are disgusted by partygate/misleading the house (doubles down on problem), and to hear a political representative of any flavour saying they 'don't care' is a sad reflection of the ilk that seem to be, or used to, run this country.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Says she who shagged Major. Very moral I'm sure.

[towny44]

Across social media I have noticed many of the Johnson fanbois trying to distance themselves from him until they see how this rides out. If he holds on they will be back in his corner accepting incredibly low standards in public life; if he resigns they will say 'I was never a fan'. As usual I think he has so little integrity or shame he will be able to ride this out ... as above he has dredged up a real doozy to distract from his inability to be honest, and it appears to be working (despite being very transparent).

Ken, regardless of the eventual outcome of the party gate tomfoolery, let me state that having been the driving force in extricating us from the EU's clutches, Boris will always be my hero and if he is forced to resign I will be very sorry indeed.

[Manoverboard]

Says she who shagged Major. Very moral I'm sure.

They were both lonely hearts and simply came together in their hour of mutual need