Current Affairs

[Jan Rosser]

Presumably you get the same chaos at all of the border points for non-EU citizens.

My son who lives in Luxembourg has problems every time he leaves the country as he can no longer go through the EU channel and has to queue with “the rest of the world” - it’s been a nightmare especially travelling with the family. My two grandsons have dual nationality - Luxembourg and UK and my DIL has passports for Luxembourg and Spain. He certainly blames it on Brexit! He recently went to Dublin with work and missed the connection at Schipol airport because of the queues.

[Chalgrave4]

Basically it's the same point of view, expressed many times already. 'It's the fault of the French'
[/quote]

Its interesting that that comment comes from somebody for whom blames everything on Brexit.
At least I explained why I blame the French your reply explained nothing

[Mervyn and Trish]

And it is not a direct result of Brexit.

Where passport checks required before Brexit? No

Are passport checks required after Brexit? Yes

If Brexit had not happened, would passport checks be required now? No

Ergo, the current situation is a direct result of Brexit.

Actually that is factually inaccurate.

Were passport checks required before Brexit?
Yes. Because we were not in the Schengen Visa scheme we always had to go through passport control to get into and out of the EU.

In that respect nothing has changed as a result of Brexit.

The difference is in attitude. Some people and some countries really want Brexit to work for our mutual benefit.. Some countries have already adapted or added electronic gates for UK passport holders. And there is no issue entering those countries. They are making it as easy for UK tourists as it was before.

Some people and some countries, leading among
them France, are determined to make it as difficult as possible.

Only half the booths at Dover were manned at the start of what was known well in advance was going to be a very very busy day. And the Channel Tunnel operator has pointed out that the chaos at Dover began some time before the minor technical issue the French tried to blame for non arrival of their staff. I for one will not be planning a trip to France anytime soon.

So I suppose you could argue the problem was a result of Brexit. I would argue it's not an inevitable result of Brexit. It is the result of someone determined to create an issue.

[Kendhni]

Presumably you get the same chaos at all of the border points for non-EU citizens.

My son who lives in Luxembourg has problems every time he leaves the country as he can no longer go through the EU channel and has to queue with “the rest of the world” - it’s been a nightmare especially travelling with the family. My two grandsons have dual nationality - Luxembourg and UK and my DIL has passports for Luxembourg and Spain. He certainly blames it on Brexit! He recently went to Dublin with work and missed the connection at Schipol airport because of the queues.

I have found travelling for business on my second passport around Europe really does help cut through some queues ... the UK passport, at the minute, is just 'not as good' as it used to be. On the other hand, we are just back from a holiday in Greece, and the passport used made no difference ... maybe they handle holiday flights differently?

[oldbluefox]

Presumably you get the same chaos at all of the border points for non-EU citizens.

My son who lives in Luxembourg has problems every time he leaves the country as he can no longer go through the EU channel and has to queue with “the rest of the world” - it’s been a nightmare especially travelling with the family. My two grandsons have dual nationality - Luxembourg and UK and my DIL has passports for Luxembourg and Spain. He certainly blames it on Brexit! He recently went to Dublin with work and missed the connection at Schipol airport because of the queues.

Sorry Jan, I meant foreign nationals who come from countries outside the EU. Is there the same chaos at all border crossings into EU countries or is this just a French phenomenon?

[Jan Rosser]

Presumably you get the same chaos at all of the border points for non-EU citizens.

My son who lives in Luxembourg has problems every time he leaves the country as he can no longer go through the EU channel and has to queue with “the rest of the world” - it’s been a nightmare especially travelling with the family. My two grandsons have dual nationality - Luxembourg and UK and my DIL has passports for Luxembourg and Spain. He certainly blames it on Brexit! He recently went to Dublin with work and missed the connection at Schipol airport because of the queues.

Sorry Jan, I meant foreign nationals who come from countries outside the EU. Is there the same chaos at all border crossings into EU countries or is this just a French phenomenon?

Sorry Foxy I’m having a “blonde” moment here !!! My son is classed as a foreign national with a British passport living in an EU country hence he cannot use the EU channel to leave Luxembourg or return and so far he has flown into Germany, the Netherlands, Irish republic - at each passport control he has been queuing in some cases for over an hour so I don’t think it’s just the French causing delays. What he finds frustrating is that the rules of the Schengen Agreement don’t apply to him now either - he’s not a happy bunny He will be driving down to Spain through France in August for a holiday so it will be interesting to see if the experience is different. He is eligible for a Luxembourg passport so there is an easy answer to his problems!

[Gill W]

At least I explained why I blame the French your reply explained nothing

I explained at the beginning of my rather lengthy post why the reason for the the current situation is Brexit.

Actually that is factually inaccurate.

Were passport checks required before Brexit?
Yes. Because we were not in the Schengen Visa scheme we always had to go through passport control to get into and out of the EU.

In that respect nothing has changed as a result of Brexit.

The difference is in attitude. Some people and some countries really want Brexit to work for our mutual benefit.. Some countries have already adapted or added electronic gates for UK passport holders. And there is no issue entering those countries. They are making it as easy for UK tourists as it was before.

Some people and some countries, leading among
them France, are determined to make it as difficult as possible.

Only half the booths at Dover were manned at the start of what was known well in advance was going to be a very very busy day. And the Channel Tunnel operator has pointed out that the chaos at Dover began some time before the minor technical issue the French tried to blame for non arrival of their staff. I for one will not be planning a trip to France anytime soon.

So I suppose you could argue the problem was a result of Brexit. I would argue it's not an inevitable result of Brexit. It is the result of someone determined to create an issue.

Pardon me, I wasn’t clear, I should have referred to the STAMPING of passports. That’s is because we are now a third country.

So it’s factually inaccurate to say nothing has changed as a result of Brexit.

Apparently, it was the U.K. who wanted the French border controls in Dover. This is because we required the U.K. border to be in Calais, so any refugees/migrants could be processed before they arrived in Dover. The French can’t just add more infrastructure, because they are working in Dover. They can only work with the space they are given. In December 2020, the U.K. government turned down plans to build more passport booths. (The report can be found on the City AM website, but it’s late and I can’t be bothered to faff around with doing the link on my iPad)

The situation is a result of Brexit, there’s no getting away from it. You could definitely say that it didn’t have to be like this - we didn’t have to have the hardest Brexit possible for example. But we are where we are - and there were warnings these situations would happen. But people were apparently happy with the deal that was signed in December 2019

It seems that it’s another of those things we ‘gotta live with’

[oldbluefox]

A bit like bitter Remainers really.

[towny44]

At least I explained why I blame the French your reply explained nothing

I explained at the beginning of my rather lengthy post why the reason for the the current situation is Brexit.

Actually that is factually inaccurate.

Were passport checks required before Brexit?
Yes. Because we were not in the Schengen Visa scheme we always had to go through passport control to get into and out of the EU.

In that respect nothing has changed as a result of Brexit.

The difference is in attitude. Some people and some countries really want Brexit to work for our mutual benefit.. Some countries have already adapted or added electronic gates for UK passport holders. And there is no issue entering those countries. They are making it as easy for UK tourists as it was before.

Some people and some countries, leading among
them France, are determined to make it as difficult as possible.

Only half the booths at Dover were manned at the start of what was known well in advance was going to be a very very busy day. And the Channel Tunnel operator has pointed out that the chaos at Dover began some time before the minor technical issue the French tried to blame for non arrival of their staff. I for one will not be planning a trip to France anytime soon.

So I suppose you could argue the problem was a result of Brexit. I would argue it's not an inevitable result of Brexit. It is the result of someone determined to create an issue.

Pardon me, I wasn’t clear, I should have referred to the STAMPING of passports. That’s is because we are now a third country.

So it’s factually inaccurate to say nothing has changed as a result of Brexit.

Apparently, it was the U.K. who wanted the French border controls in Dover. This is because we required the U.K. border to be in Calais, so any refugees/migrants could be processed before they arrived in Dover. The French can’t just add more infrastructure, because they are working in Dover. They can only work with the space they are given. In December 2020, the U.K. government turned down plans to build more passport booths. (The report can be found on the City AM website, but it’s late and I can’t be bothered to faff around with doing the link on my iPad)

The situation is a result of Brexit, there’s no getting away from it. You could definitely say that it didn’t have to be like this - we didn’t have to have the hardest Brexit possible for example. But we are where we are - and there were warnings these situations would happen. But people were apparently happy with the deal that was signed in December 2019

It seems that it’s another of those things we ‘gotta live with’

Gill, the main problem on this occasion was that there were only half the required french customs agents operating at the passport control. Now I guess you could argue that this was a deliberate ploy by the french because they hate Brexit, but I would have thought you were too intelligent to try and use that argument.

[Mervyn and Trish]

So if it's neither French incompetence nor malice answer me this. The same rules re stamping etc apply the other way. And we man the border for the return journey. So why are there not 6 hour queues and tailbacks in France to get back?

And as Towny has pointed out, as have media reports, the French failed to man half the booths they already have. What would have been the point of building more for them to stand empty too?

[Stephen]

I think the answer is basically the French don’t like us that much and are just being bloody minded.

Two can play at that game though.

[screwy]

We’re missing a trick here.

Why don’t we put our tourists on all the boats we’ve confiscated and send them to France and see how the French like it.!

I am joking, honest.

[Mervyn and Trish]

It did occur to me that the French are far more effective at delaying legitimate tourists than illegal ones.

But seriously yes of course the rules have changed post Brexit. But the delays are not inevitable. The difference is those who want it to work and those who don't. There is no reason for the new rules to cause chaos if there is a will.

Spain and Portugal have both installed e gates for UK tourists and now additional checks due to Covid have been removed those borders are working smoothly. Because they respect our democratic right and still want our custom and welcome us.

Stamping passports is both archaic and futile. The only purpose is to prevent overstaying and that would entail the border staff checking every stamp on every page and doing the sums. That is on departure. Are they doing that? In my experience no.

The electronic gates replicate the border guard scanning the passport and looking the traveller in the face to confirm identity. Whichever way this is done, manual or e gate, the IT systems are perfectly capable of working out when the holder arrived and left. The physical stamping adds nothing and in any case takes seconds and does not account for six hour delays.

If there was a will this could be resolved instantly. But those who opposed Brexit, here and in the EU, are determined to make a point. We've seen that repeatedly in France's case with fishing disputes, legal threats, port blockades etc. and now this. Which helps no one.

Brexit has happened. Now Sir Hindsight has pronounced, no major party has an intention to reverse it. So time to move on, start to grab the benefits and minimise the disadvantages.

[Kendhni]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/roads-port-do ... 18623.html
It looks like the issues have been resolved ... in the end little more than a storm in a tea cup.
The british blame the French the French blame the british, the likelihood is that it is probably a bit of both.

[oldbluefox]

Looks like I am agreeing with you Ken. Brexit is the excuse. Reality is incompetence on both sides. A few heads need cracking together.

[towny44]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/roads-port-do ... 18623.html
It looks like the issues have been resolved ... in the end little more than a storm in a tea cup.
The british blame the French the French blame the british, the likelihood is that it is probably a bit of both.

But it still disrupted the start of holidays for thousands of holidaymakers, who will remember the experience for years.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Looks like I am agreeing with you Ken. Brexit is the excuse. Reality is incompetence on both sides. A few heads need cracking together.

Three things get blamed for everything. Brexit, Covid and Boris. Great screens for all sorts of corporate incompetence.

[screwy]

It’s always the French, every summer.
If it’s not air traffic controllers,it’s the fishermen blockading the ports,now it’s their border force….Always the bloody French. Don’t know why we bothered .

Gets tin hat.

[Kendhni]

Looks like I am agreeing with you Ken. Brexit is the excuse. Reality is incompetence on both sides. A few heads need cracking together.

Three things get blamed for everything. Brexit, Covid and Boris. Great screens for all sorts of corporate incompetence.

I dunno I have heard some people blaming Gordon Brown

[oldbluefox]

And him!
And Blair!

[Mervyn and Trish]

To be fair Gordon Brown isn't responsible for everything. True he sold off our gold. And he raided the pension schemes to fund his economic policies. (But that didn't affect me. I retired early enough to get my gold plated pension with knobs on, it's those retiring now I feel sorry for). And he mortgaged our health service. And his head in the sand attitude to uncontrolled immigration fueled the sentiment that contributed to Brexit. And he was clueless about life outside the M25.

But overall he's a jolly good chap.

[Manoverboard]

I dunno I have heard some people blaming Gordon Brown

Mais oui, non. Il est La Francais, so ... Monsieur Le Brun et Madam Blaire

[Kendhni]

Non c'est le clown incompétent, adieu l'idiot sans valeur.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Merde .

[david63]

On a point of order this is an English speaking site