Current Affairs

[towny44]

Well for those of a conservative persuasion I can only say that I did warn you not to let the media steamroller you into accepting that Boris had to go.

[Kendhni]

I was not totally impressed by Sir Keir's rallying cry "Don't forget, don't forgive".
I remembered that in 1997 Gordon Brown raided pension pots (£118bn?). Whilst it did not affect me it did affect many of my friends who had to continue working past pension age as a consequence.
I haven't forgotten and I haven't forgiven either.

People keep mentioning Gordon Brown raiding pension pots, which isn't correct. When you ask what happened, the same people usually talk about allowing companies to take money out etc. which again is incorrect. What Brown did was to stop tax relief on dividends, he didn't 'raid' (that was just just media spin). It was worth about £118bn (over a period of about 15 years) to the exchequer which was probably used for the NHS, education etc.

What most people are actually thinking about was the much more damaging action to pensions, caused by Nigel Lawson (under Margaret Thatcher) in 1988. He imposed a tax on pension surpluses causing many companies to stop contributing to pension schemes (the 'payment holidays' often attributed to Brown) ... Lawson's action ultimately resulted in the need to shutdown nearly all defined benefit pensions.

The biggest problem with pensions for the last 25 years are the public sector pensions which are significantly 'underfunded'. This has resulted in another 'raid' whereby a small percentage of defined contribution pensions is being 'raided' to guarantee underfunded defined benefit pension schemes .. known as the Pension Guarantee.

[Ray Scully]

Well for those of a conservative persuasion I can only say that I did warn you not to let the media steamroller you into accepting that Boris had to go.

Good one John

[Onelife]

Liz Truss has publicly acknowledged that she isn’t the best public speaker, come to think of it neither is Kwarteng but while they may not resonate an air of confidence in those who have to listen to them, I don’t think this should be used as the yard stick as to their political capabilities. It’s like saying Onelifes grammar is crap, which it is, but that doesn’t mean to say I’m not more intelligent than most of you on this forum.

My tentative support for the direction they are taking comes from my desire to see a different approach to that which has stagnated this country into treading the old worn-out paths that inevitably takes us backwards not forward.

Opinion polls only reflect how people are feeling in any given crisis they don’t give any indication as to what should be done about the crisis other than giving the impression another party could do it better.

I have to say that I have lost all faith in a political system which in my opinion is not fit for purpose, especially with regard to how our opposition party’s conduct themselves. It’s been a very long time since I have witnessed any debating of policy and legislation through constructive criticism…I dread to think how many good policies have been scuppered because they are too sensible. Our political system is trapped on a Ferris wheel of indecision due to a system that has forgotten its purpose imo.

Bring back Theresa and Meghan

[david63]

I don’t think this should be used as the yard stick as to their political capabilities

What is probably a better yardstick of their political capabilities is that in the leadership election Truss did not manage to get one third of Tory MPs to vote for her (113 out of 355). These are the people who have seen her in action over the years and have been able, first hand, to form an opinion of her political capabilities.

[oldbluefox]

I was with you all the way OL until you went and spoilt it with your last sentence.

[Onelife]

I don’t think this should be used as the yard stick as to their political capabilities

What is probably a better yardstick of their political capabilities is that in the leadership election Truss did not manage to get one third of Tory MPs to vote for her (113 out of 355). These are the people who have seen her in action over the years and have been able, first hand, to form an opinion of her political capabilities.

I think that only emphasise the disunity between the different tribes that lurk within the conservative party.

If you are right about Liz then it won’t be long before it’s goodbye Liz… hello Keir and “Angela” gawd help us!

[Onelife]

I was with you all the way OL until you went and spoilt it with your last sentence.

Thanks Foxy...I'll ask David to delete Theresa

[Kendhni]

I have to say that I have lost all faith in a political system which in my opinion is not fit for purpose, especially with regard to how our opposition party’s conduct themselves. It’s been a very long time since I have witnessed any debating of policy and legislation through constructive criticism…I dread to think how many good policies have been scuppered because they are too sensible. Our political system is trapped on a Ferris wheel of indecision due to a system that has forgotten its purpose imo.

Agree totally, except for the word 'especially' ... maybe 'including'. But 'especially' should be applied to poor performance from the government under whose control the country is. While I hate the system we have, the role of the opposition is defined in its name, always has (irrespective of who is in power) and always will be until we get a better system.

Bring back Theresa and Meghan

Given the current and previous incumbents, it is hardly likely to make things worse. Meghan for PM, Theresa to shack up with the ginger.

[Gill W]

Well for those of a conservative persuasion I can only say that I did warn you not to let the media steamroller you into accepting that Boris had to go.

The 'media' didn't have anything to do with it.

Johnson lied, and then kept on lying until his colleagues could tolerate it no more and resigned en masse.

For those of a Conservative persuasion, it must be quite depressing to see the dearth of talent amongst party MP's. I can't understand why you tolerate it.

[oldbluefox]

For those of a Conservative persuasion, it must be quite depressing to see the dearth of talent amongst party MP's. I can't understand why you tolerate it.

Probably because of what the alternatives are.............and I'm not even a Conservative.

[Bensham33]

Give Labour a chance, they can't do any worse than the Tories and I've voted conservative at the last 3 General Elections. For my shame I even voted for Thatcher once. It was only once and I have regretted it ever since. Rest assured after the last few years I will never vote for them again. If there was a General Election tomirrow the Tories would have about 3 MP's. They are a complete joke.

I wonder if Truss is Thatcher reincarnated.

[Onelife]

If Labour are going to have any chance of forming the next Government, they will have to do what they have done to Diana Abbott and remove Angela Raynor from the shadow cabinet…. all she does is waffle from the same old script.

[oldbluefox]

That's how I feel about the Labour party although I have never voted for them. When Blair took over I was quite hopeful considering all the promises he made. He was young, and came over as a breath of fresh air. However it wasn't long before I realised he was no better than all the rest and typified the hypocrisy of the Labour Party who spout out this nonsense about 'the working man' but in fact simply lined their own pockets lauded their celebrity friends.Once he had made a total mess he handed over a poisoned chalice to Gordon Brown.
They can contort their faces as much as they like when referring to 'the poor and vulnerable' and 'supporting the working man' but I'm not one who is taken in. To be honest I'm not sure who I would vote for at the moment but it would not be a two-faced Labour party.

At this moment in time we could do with a Thatcher reincarnation.

[towny44]

Well for those of a conservative persuasion I can only say that I did warn you not to let the media steamroller you into accepting that Boris had to go.

The 'media' didn't have anything to do with it.

Johnson lied, and then kept on lying until his colleagues could tolerate it no more and resigned en masse.

For those of a Conservative persuasion, it must be quite depressing to see the dearth of talent amongst party MP's. I can't understand why you tolerate it.

Gill, if the media hadn't kept going on about "partygate" then it would have died a natural death. It was only the regular injections of oxygen from the media, and probably some astute drip feeding of photos and other tittle tattle from, quite likely, Labour HQ, that made it into a wide screen epic, rather than a feeble B picture.

[Gill W]

Give Labour a chance, they can't do any worse than the Tories and I've voted conservative at the last 3 General Elections. For my shame I even voted for Thatcher once. It was only once and I have regretted it ever since. Rest assured after the last few years I will never vote for them again. If there was a General Election tomirrow the Tories would have about 3 MP's. They are a complete joke.

I wonder if Truss is Thatcher reincarnated.

I think that Truss is a Thatcher wannabee, in the same way that Johnson was a Churchill wannabee. But both fall short. Whatever you thought of Thatcher, she was at least competent.

I'm not sure that people have really understood what happened this week, and how close we were to real disaster. Thankfully the Bank of England intervened, otherwise most of us on this forum could have been in deep trouble.

What concerns me is that Truss will keep ploughing on with her ideology, and we haven't yet reached the bottom.

I don't know how bad it will need to get before some people will realise what's happening.

I don't think I could ever vote Conservative again, and at the next election will do whatever is necessary to remove them. In my case that means voting Labour.

By the time there is a GE, I dread to think what state we'll be in. Other parties won't have all the answers, and it'll take years to unpick the damage that the Conservatives have wreaked. But I think a Labour government or Labour coalition will be more likely to work to improve the situation. Whereas the Conservatives would continue to enrich themselves and their wealthy backers. They aren't even trying to hide it now.

That's how I feel about the Labour party although I have never voted for them.

You also said you weren't a Conservative - who do you vote for???

Gill, if the media hadn't kept going on about "partygate" then it would have died a natural death. It was only the regular injections of oxygen from the media, and probably some astute drip feeding of photos and other tittle tattle from, quite likely, Labour HQ, that made it into a wide screen epic, rather than a feeble B picture.

Would it be ok if he'd lied we and didn't find out about it?

But it wasn't the lies about 'Partygate' that did for him. He could have got away with it, but he couldn't stop lying. It was the lies about Chris Pincher that did for Johnson in the end. His Government colleagues had had enough by then. If his own colleagues couldn't tolerate it anymore, why would you tolerate it?

[Onelife]

I listened to part of Putin’s annexation speech this afternoon and couldn’t stop thinking this man needs to be in a lunatic asylum. I was also left thinking maybe, just maybe someone might just put a bullet in his head and stop this deluded individual taking this any further.

What we do know is propaganda is the deadliest weapon given to man and as it stands Putin has used it very effectively on the majority of Russian people. So where does Zelensky go from here…fight on and risk Putin unleashing his arsenal of deadliest weapons or does Zelensky capitulate some of the Ukrainian land?

If I was a Ukrainian, I would be saying fight on but as someone far removed from the horrific abuses that have taken place, I think Zelensky should consider capitulating some of the Donbas region in order to stop what could be catastrophic consequences for his people. The only way I see this happening is if Ukraine is given a cast iron, fast track entry into NATO. Russia/Putin will become isolated from the west and Ukraine will rebuild under the protection of NATO.

That being said I would much prefer the bullet option.

[Kendhni]

The problem with the bullet option is that the most likely candidate to replace him at the minute, Nikolai Patrushev, is thought to be even more hardline (better the devil you know).

While the annexation is a joke, built on a sham election, Putin is looking for an excuse to nuke someone. He has said that the only reason he would use nukes was if the glorious commie motherland was attacked. So far, surprisingly, the Ukrainians have not bombarded Russian towns, but if they fight to regain their annexed stolen lands then Putin will claim it is an attack on Russia as justification for even more heinous war crimes ... and Russia will be attacked.

If Ukraine is willing to cede some territory then I would be suggesting the 2 northernmost states but in return they get the 2 southern states and Crimea back. I agree with you about NATO ... basically give Ukraine membership and next week place thousands of tonnes of heavy ordnance, aircraft and naval ships right on the commie border ... preferably pointing right up Putins jacksie.

[Kendhni]

But it wasn't the lies about 'Partygate' that did for him.

I always thought that if Johnson had have come out on day1 and said, yes there were some parties that probably broke the rules and he is very sorry. He will engage with the police and here is a few bob for a charity ... then it would have all gone away overnight.

Instead he did what Johnson has always done, lie through his teeth in the hope he can fool the gullible and simple minded one more time. Even when the photographs came out he continued to lie. He was totally untrustworthy, as people who knew him a lot better than any of us said 'if his lips move then he is lying'.

[Bensham33]

I have never understood why Johnson supporters thought it was okay for the Prime Minister of this country to lie through his teeth time and time again. He did some good things he nearly got Brexit done and was brilliant over the covid crisis. He lied before that but I think most people were prepared to forgive that until. Partygate and he took us all for fools. It was a shame really because he could have been a very good PM but you cannot have a compulsive liar in charge of this country. All politicians lie, we know that but Johnson went over the top.

[david63]

Boris, even for all his lies, would stand more chance of winning the next General Election for the Tories than Truss ever will, in my opinion.

[towny44]

Boris, even for all his lies, would stand more chance of winning the next General Election for the Tories than Truss ever will, in my opinion.

On that we both agree.

[Onelife]

Boris, even for all his lies, would stand more chance of winning the next General Election for the Tories than Truss ever will, in my opinion.

I wouldn’t bet against its David but come the 23 Nov we may be hearing new policies which may get people thinking…”hold on a minute perhaps I’ve been a bit hasty”.

[Gill W]

I wouldn’t bet against its David but come the 23 Nov we may be hearing new policies which may get people thinking…”hold on a minute perhaps I’ve been a bit hasty”.

The OBR report is due on 23rd November, although there is no reason why it shouldn’t be released earlier (apart from the Government trying to delay scrutiny).

https://obr.uk/next-steps-in-the-novem ... -forecast/

Whatever date this report is published, I have it pencilled in for the next financial meltdown.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Am I in a minority here, with very few others, being more worried about Putin than Liz Truss? With his latest escalation and rhetoric 23 November may not exist for many in the world, potentially including us. It doesn't matter that NATO has more nukes than Russia. They have plenty to wipe Ukraine and her allies off the face of the earth. Compared to that whether the rich pay 45% tax or bankers get bigger bonuses is pretty irrelevant.