Current Affairs

[Kendhni]

Tomorrow (Monday) should be interesting. It sounds like many people have handed letters of no confidence in Truss to the 1922 committee ... but Graham Brady has been off and won't be back in the office until Monday, so as of yet we do not know how many there are. Plus it is suggested that the limit of votes of no confidence is not on a per useless PM basis, as the 1922 committee rules stand they can only have one vote per year.

Unless the rules are changed the tory party could be forced to go into the next general election with a dead-woman-walking party leader.

[oldbluefox]

Sorry.......reply to Gill's question

It's actually early days and many years were lost due to the shenanigans of the Remainers who did everything they could to overturn the vote. I did not expect everything to change overnight but when you see no benefits from the EU you have nothing to lose and plenty to gain. Such was the influence on my everyday life that I have not missed it one bit and Project Fear did not materialise, certainly not in my neck of the woods. Time will ultimately tell how successful we can be outside the EU but it's premature to make any judgement now.
I voted many years ago to join the Common Market as it was then called, not for all that was (surreptitiously) added on as a cosy little institution for failed politicians. Given the choice I would vote again for a common trading union which made sense then and still does make sense.
I actually believe that if the benefits of our membership of the EU had been spread more equitably around the country the result of the referendum would have been different. EU's fault? Politicians fault? Who's to say but the outcome is the same.

[oldbluefox]

As an addendum to that Gill, I worked for 15 years in Germany and took the opportunity to travel around Europe. I saw first hand what other countries were achieving as their membership of the EU with their road and rail infrastructures, their buildings, their sports facilities (even in small villages), their hospitals and schools.
Then in 1989 I returned to UK and it struck me how far behind them we were lagging unless you were, so it seemed, in one of the capital cities. Somewhere along the line the gravy train had to stop and suddenly 'leveling up' was born (a great idea but I'll believe that one when I see it). As far as I am concerned where there are no benefits we are better off out of it than in it.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Gill, yes I agree it hasn't gone swimmingly but we probably don't agree on the reasons.

I'm pretty much with Foxy. It took 4 years from the referendum to actually reach the point of leaving the EU in January 2020, and even then there was a further 11 month transition period where we stayed in the single market and customs union..

That four years was largely because of the anti democratic activities of those who thought they could overturn the result and included two general elections.

Then less than a month after we left, while still in the transition period, what happened? Bang. Covid. Paralysing the government who had to prioritise that.

As we were starting to get through that in 2021, bang, Partygate. Whether that was Boris's fault or the media or his attackers or whoever the result was the same. More paralysis.

Oh and then bang again. Putin invades Ukraine and throws the world into economic crisis.

So realistically since departure there hasn't been any government time to work on moving forward.

I never expected it overnight in any case. But I do believe once we get beyond the current nonsense and have a stable government of any colour, if they get on with it and stop scoring petty political points I would expect to see us moving forward. I'm not naive enough to expect it to all be positive. But I believe the benefits, not all economic, outweigh the downside.

There's another thing I think we agree on. If there was another referendum tomorrow I don't think either of us would change our vote. I've seen nothing in the EU since 2016 that makes me think it's a club I wish I was in.

[Kendhni]

Singling out statements around the tired old garbage about 'it is all remainers fault' ... I can't remember who said it but it always makes me laugh "Briexiteer blame moving is as regular as a bowel movement and full of the same stuff.".

The argument that COVID saved brexit does carry some merit.

[Kendhni]

A sad reflection of how the leadership has reflected on our economy
https://uk.news.yahoo.com/uk-economy-li ... 14702.html

[Gill W]

Singling out statements around the tired old garbage about 'it is all remainers fault' ... I can't remember who said it but it always makes me laugh "Briexiteer blame moving is as regular as a bowel movement and full of the same stuff.".

The argument that COVID saved brexit does carry some merit.

I pretty much got the replies I expected. No one can come up with one tangible benefit of Brexit that makes their lives better, and it’s all the fault of Remainers.

I think that Brexit, Covid, Ukraine have all got mixed up in a terrible soup. But, if Brexit had not happened, our problems would not have been so big, and we would have had a better government to deal with the other problems.

But, onward with the issues of the day. How long can she survive as PM ? End of the month, week, or day?

[Mervyn and Trish]

And that's pretty much the replies I expected from you two. If we don't agree with you it's garbage and wrong. Please just get your heads round the idea that opinions other than yours are available and should be respected. Even if we disagree we could be civil.

[Kendhni]

I pretty much got the replies I expected. No one can come up with one tangible benefit of Brexit that makes their lives better, and it’s all the fault of Remainers.

You have obviously forgotten that we got blue passports.

[Kendhni]

And that's pretty much the replies I expected from you two. If we don't agree with you it's garbage and wrong. Please just get your heads round the idea that opinions other than yours are available and should be respected. Even if we disagree we could be civil.

Apologies if you didn't like the little joke. I thought it was hilarious ... I think it was maybe from Joe Lycett on HIGNFY (but I could be wrong).

I guess that after 6 years, despite various events, I expected brexit to have started delivering something instead of just being a money zapper with nothing to show for it. It was supposed to be about taking control but all we ever seem to get back are more and more desperate excuses for failure. While big global events will have slowed progress down, there was no 'paralysis', none of them stopped the ability to deliver many aspects of what was promised. The biggest issue is that there has never been a plan before, during or since brexit to actually deliver it ... that is not the fault of remainers.

The other big delay issue was brexit infighting over what flavour of brexit they wanted to deliver (at its peak I think there were 14 different definitions ... some have counted over 20, but I think they were double counting). After much negotiation, selling out of redlines, and many many votes and revotes and reasking questions and use of the whip blackmailing various MPs into voting the right way or having funding cut off to their constituency, we had a winner ... 'brexit at any cost'. But since then the government sort of ran out of ideas and the costs have been mounting.

Because the government had no idea what to do, Rees-Mogg had a great idea and decided to ask the proud and patriotic public what they wanted from brexit ... democratic leadership at its finest. The top answers he got included
- unregulated fracking
- more powerful vacuum cleaners
- less training for pharmacists and paramedics
- removal of workplace health and safety restrictions (such as wiring safety)
- remove van size regulations needing operators licenses
- simplify calculation of holiday pay

Despite Rees-Mogg labelling the 'vacuum cleaner' idea as 'the most interesting' on how to 'captialise on UKs new found brexit freedoms', after much thinking and deliberation he actually chose to go with changing from the metric system back to the imperial system ... something which pretty much nobody asked or campaigned for ... and had little to do with being a member of the EU. But hey, as brexit minister he got to choose the most important brexit benefit to focus on.

[Onelife]

I just want it to be known that I agree with Foxy and Sir Merv…I would also like it known that whatever perceived benefits there were of being part of the EU they would never outweigh the benefits of being free to carve out our own destiny… which of course is priceless.

[Kendhni]

I would also like it known that whatever perceived benefits there were of being part of the EU they would never outweigh the benefits of being free to carve out our own destiny… which of course is priceless.

I would argue that we always did, we just pay a lot more for it now.

[oldbluefox]

Usual neurotic twaddle from the usual suspects Mervyn.
I thought our responses to Gill's question were honest and civil but clearly they didn't get the answers they were looking for. If Gill already knew the answer why bother asking?
And if they think the shenanigans of the Remainers after the vote went against them did not delay our ultimate departure from the EU they are living in cloud cuckoo land. That and the hope of overturning the result was their sole aim.

[Onelife]

Singling out statements around the tired old garbage about 'it is all remainers fault' ... I can't remember who said it but it always makes me laugh "Briexiteer blame moving is as regular as a bowel movement and full of the same stuff.".

The argument that COVID saved brexit does carry some merit.

I pretty much got the replies I expected. No one can come up with one tangible benefit of Brexit that makes their lives better, and it’s all the fault of Remainers.

I think that Brexit, Covid, Ukraine have all got mixed up in a terrible soup. But, if Brexit had not happened, our problems would not have been so big, and we would have had a better government to deal with the other problems.

But, onward with the issues of the day. How long can she survive as PM ? End of the month, week, or day?

Gill you say “No one can come up with one tangible benefit of Brexit”?

On the 31st January 2020 I got back respect for my country.


With Hunt’s announcement coming shortly I have revised my estimate from a few weeks, down to a few days...shame I liked her.

[Kendhni]

On the 31st January 2020 I got back respect for my country.

To be fair that is not tangible ... as someone who has defended their country, I lost respect for it on 31 January 2020.

With Hunt’s announcement coming shortly I have revised my estimate from a few weeks, down to a few days...shame I liked her.

I wasn't a fan, but to maybe use a poker analogy, we previously played the joker only to learn it was meaningless and had no value so was removed from the deck. We then thought we were playing the Queen of Diamonds but it appears we actually threw down another joker.

[Onelife]

On the 31st January 2020 I got back respect for my country.

To be fair that is not tangible ... as someone who has defended their country, I lost respect for it on 31 January 2020.

With Hunt’s announcement coming shortly I have revised my estimate from a few weeks, down to a few days...shame I liked her.

I wasn't a fan, but to maybe use a poker analogy, we previously played the joker only to learn it was meaningless and had no value so was removed from the deck. We then thought we were playing the Queen of Diamonds but it appears we actually threw down another joker.

I don’t know what your definition of tangible is but the historic event of 31st January 2020 certainly ‘touched’ me!

Nothing wrong with the deck, she just showed her hand to soon.

[oldbluefox]

To be fair that is not tangible ... as someone who has defended their country, I lost respect for it on 31 January 2020.

I know I got up with a bad head on 1st February 2020.

[barney]

The major benefit is that we’ve removed another level of government.
The U.K. now has no choice but to stand on it’s own two feet without a convenient ‘enemy’ to blame.
On the downside, since the vote, we’ve had a succession of totally incompetent governments.
That won’t last forever, but Brexit will.

[oldbluefox]

The major benefit is that we’ve removed another level of government.
The U.K. now has no choice but to stand on it’s own two feet without a convenient ‘enemy’ to blame.
On the downside, since the vote, we’ve had a succession of totally incompetent governments.
That won’t last forever, but Brexit will.

Succinctly put but absolutely correct barney.

[Kendhni]

I don’t know what your definition of tangible is but the historic event of 31st January 2020 certainly ‘touched’ me!

I always said you were 'touched'
By 'tangible benefit' I would mean directly affects me, things that are measurably benefitting my life. Maybe better produce in shops, cheaper goods on the shelves, higher levels of employment, better pay, better in work benefits, better infrastructure, technical infrastructure suitable for the second half of this century, an effective NHS, a slimmed down public sector, lower levels of taxation, investment into technology, better trade deals, improved rights, and dozens of other things ... these are all things tories should stand for but are not delivering on, even though we are throwing hundreds of billions of pounds at it ... at the minute our economy is dragging by at least 5% on where it should be.

We know it will take years or decades, but that is not something we should be cowering behind. To avoid the next generation being lost in among all this noise there has to be a properly costed and laid out roadmap/plan for achieving the promised benefits of brexit. That also means we need to measure the success or failure of what we are doing ... if we drop below a line we do things to bring it back up, if we go above the line we brag about it to the world. This is all management 101 ... something the government does not seem to understand or have the skills for. Given the chance, I think Truss might actually have delivered this, but she screwed herself over.

For the last 40 years the EU has been a very convenient scape-goat for many issues that were actually internal to the UK ... some people have not moved on from that. We have chosen a path of standing on our own 2 feet, so we have to grow a pair and stop crying like babies blaming everyone else for what are 100% our own failings. We seem to be entering a phase of de-globalisation ... the UK should be nearly a decade ahead of rest of the world on this, but the reality is we are lagging behind.

Nothing wrong with the deck, she just showed her hand to soon.

While I thought she might have got the job done, I was confused with the logic behind what she was doing ... I don't know about showing her hands, although when she talks it looks like she has 2 meat cleavers at the end of her arms, but sadly she showed us that she was indecisive and weak ... that was down to her own naivety.

[Kendhni]

Looks like Hunt has pretty much un-budgeted everything that Truss announced, apart from stamp duty and the reversal of the NI increase (rightly so). This has to be humiliating for Truss ... you do have to pity her. It looks like the government is now solidly in the anti-growth coalition camp. I suppose ultimately that was the 'to be expected' side of the budget, Hunt still has to announce how and where cuts are going to be made to balance the books.

[Bensham33]

Truss has to go. It's a complete shambles. The Tories have reached a completely new level of incompetence. The only way they can can get any credibility back is to have a General Election.

Let Sir Keir Starmer have a go at being PM, he can't do any worse.

[Onelife]

Hi Ken...Having read your first paragraph, I can only presume you were one of those spoilt little brats who got everything they wanted at Christmas For most of us Brexiteers, we I believe, were under no illusion that Brexit would be delivering all the presents, wrapped and delivered in the time frame you are implying.

Two years is a very short time for a road map to be formed, especially when our EU friends are putting road blocks in place at every junction of our journey. Looking at our European counterparts it would appear that their wish list for a brighter Christmas has also had the runners taken off their sledge.

Where I do agree with you is that we have allowed our political processes to be hijacked by political grim reapers, therefore our success of failure will be determined by their willingness to put the past behind them and move forward with a more positive attitude.

Happy Christmas

[oldbluefox]

Truss has to go. It's a complete shambles. The Tories have reached a completely new level of incompetence. The only way they can can get any credibility back is to have a General Election.

Let Sir Keir Starmer have a go at being PM, he can't do any worse.

Starmer, Rayner, Dodds, Cooper, Lammy, Reeves, Ashworth, Miliband, Thornberry............... No thanks Bensham. I'd rather see Vieira and Zaha than that little lot!!!

[barney]

Truss has to go. It's a complete shambles. The Tories have reached a completely new level of incompetence. The only way they can can get any credibility back is to have a General Election.

Let Sir Keir Starmer have a go at being PM, he can't do any worse.

There will be a general election in 2024
Not before
They value their jobs and income
How would they pay the school fees?
Starmer will get his chance