Current Affairs

[Kendhni]

I think it's going to take the UK and the French to work together to resolve this. If legal and safe routes of crossing the channel were opened up, then the gangs would be less likely to be able to target people who want to travel to the UK. Plus, the gangs themselves need to be targeted.

But, I'm not sure the UK Government has the will to work with France. Pouring rhetoric about invasions into receptive ears is more their style

The last time the media whipped the masses up into a storm of hatred over immigration (only a few months ago, maybe someone needed to get something out of the headlines ) I pointed out that Macron, who is sick of trying to police his borders on our behalf, had offered that the UK could set up safe/legal channels prior to reaching the UK (I think you may have also mentioned it) ... to me it is the only logical manner in which this crisis can be resolved. As I said back in post #17776 " How many more failures are the tories willing to finance until they reach the inevitable conclusion that they need to reopen the safe/legal channels for migrants.".

John asked (#17814) whether it would stop attempts at crossing the channel (replied in #17818) which of course it cannot guarantee that, and some will find other ways of getting across, but it should significantly reduce the volume (hopefully to a trickle) but, most importantly, give us back control. At the minute the discussion is just going round in circles and misuse of terminology (which I first queried in #17824) ???

[towny44]

I think it's going to take the UK and the French to work together to resolve this. If legal and safe routes of crossing the channel were opened up, then the gangs would be less likely to be able to target people who want to travel to the UK. Plus, the gangs themselves need to be targeted.

But, I'm not sure the UK Government has the will to work with France. Pouring rhetoric about invasions into receptive ears is more their style

The last time the media whipped the masses up into a storm of hatred over immigration (only a few months ago, maybe someone needed to get something out of the headlines ) I pointed out that Macron, who is sick of trying to police his borders on our behalf, had offered that the UK could set up safe/legal channels prior to reaching the UK (I think you may have also mentioned it) ... to me it is the only logical manner in which this crisis can be resolved. As I said back in post #17776 " How many more failures are the tories willing to finance until they reach the inevitable conclusion that they need to reopen the safe/legal channels for migrants.".

John asked (#17814) whether it would stop attempts at crossing the channel (replied in #17818) which of course it cannot guarantee that, and some will find other ways of getting across, but it should significantly reduce the volume (hopefully to a trickle) but, most importantly, give us back control. At the minute the discussion is just going round in circles and misuse of terminology (which I first queried in #17824) ???

Call me a cynic but I could never believe that France would agree to allow asylum claims to the UK where the claimants stayed in France until the UK home office approved or rejected their claims.
Equally I doubt the UK govt would be willing to allow claimants into the UK before their claim had been concluded, in the hope that France would immediately accept all failed claimants back.
But if it could be agreed it would be a great achievement.

[Gill W]

Call me a cynic but I could never believe that France would agree to allow asylum claims to the UK where the claimants stayed in France until the UK home office approved or rejected their claims.
Equally I doubt the UK govt would be willing to allow claimants into the UK before their claim had been concluded, in the hope that France would immediately accept all failed claimants back.
But if it could be agreed it would be a great achievement.

I think that any agreement would be dependent on the U.K. getting its act together and processing asylum application within a couple of weeks, rather than several months or even into years.

[david63]

I think it is inappropriate and incorrect to use the term 'illegal immigrant' to describe all of the people crossing the channel on small boats.

At the point of crossing the channel,i.e. leaving France, they are all illegal - what changes that categorisation is what happens once they arrive in this country.

[Mervyn and Trish]

If anyone gets in a boat knowing they have no legitimate claim for asylum they are an illegal immigrant the moment they set foot on shore.

To mention that Albanian gangsters are shipping Albanians over to join Albanian drug dealers that is not vilifying all Albanians. It is vilifying Albanian crooks hiding beneath the asylum banner.

All asylum seekers are not sweat innocent persecuted people.

Finally seeking a better life is not a legitimate reason for claiming asylum. That is for escaping persecution and death. I might find UK winters a bit cold and miserable and think I would have a better life in California. If I arrived there in a rubber dinghy I doubt I'd get a great welcome.

[Kendhni]

I think it's going to take the UK and the French to work together to resolve this. If legal and safe routes of crossing the channel were opened up, then the gangs would be less likely to be able to target people who want to travel to the UK. Plus, the gangs themselves need to be targeted.

But, I'm not sure the UK Government has the will to work with France. Pouring rhetoric about invasions into receptive ears is more their style

The last time the media whipped the masses up into a storm of hatred over immigration (only a few months ago, maybe someone needed to get something out of the headlines ) I pointed out that Macron, who is sick of trying to police his borders on our behalf, had offered that the UK could set up safe/legal channels prior to reaching the UK (I think you may have also mentioned it) ... to me it is the only logical manner in which this crisis can be resolved. As I said back in post #17776 " How many more failures are the tories willing to finance until they reach the inevitable conclusion that they need to reopen the safe/legal channels for migrants.".

John asked (#17814) whether it would stop attempts at crossing the channel (replied in #17818) which of course it cannot guarantee that, and some will find other ways of getting across, but it should significantly reduce the volume (hopefully to a trickle) but, most importantly, give us back control. At the minute the discussion is just going round in circles and misuse of terminology (which I first queried in #17824) ???

Call me a cynic but I could never believe that France would agree to allow asylum claims to the UK where the claimants stayed in France until the UK home office approved or rejected their claims.
Equally I doubt the UK govt would be willing to allow claimants into the UK before their claim had been concluded, in the hope that France would immediately accept all failed claimants back.
But if it could be agreed it would be a great achievement.

It seems strange, but the offer has been out there for many months now.
I am sure it will cost us a pretty penny, but probably significantly less, in both monetary and loss of international credibility, than the ludicrous schemes of the last few home secretary's.

[Kendhni]

Just a thought. Of the 40,000 migrants that have arrived this year through irregular routes, approx. 10,000 will, at some point in the future, be deemed to be 'illegal'. There is somewhere in the region of 600,000 to 750,000 immigrants already deemed to be illegal in this country.

That means that the media have gaslighted some elements of society, whipping them up into a storm of indignation over what could be less than 1.5% of all illegal immigrants ... way to go the government in their successful manipulation of the population into ignoring the real issue caused by their own incompetence.

[barney]

I’m aware that I’m not a reliable source but as an update, overnight, another coach arrived at the Dilkhusa Hotel in Ilfracombe, with a new total of 100 illegal/asylum seekers.
The Tory MP and Tory council continue to be outraged.
The local tv station actually interviewed one of the men who seemed very confused as to how he landed in north Devon at 2 am.
Anyone who knows Ilfracombe knows it’s well off the beaten track and apparently, the onus is on the council to support these men.
It’s blindingly obvious that the council neither have the resources or the inclination to get involved.
Signing off from
An unreliable source

[towny44]

Just a thought. Of the 40,000 migrants that have arrived this year through irregular routes, approx. 10,000 will, at some point in the future, be deemed to be 'illegal'. There is somewhere in the region of 600,000 to 750,000 immigrants already deemed to be illegal in this country.

That means that the media have gaslighted some elements of society, whipping them up into a storm of indignation over what could be less than 1.5% of all illegal immigrants ... way to go the government in their successful manipulation of the population into ignoring the real issue caused by their own incompetence.

Why are you saying it's the govts fault that large numbers of failed asylum seekers are still in this country, when they would have been on a plane home long ago if the legal system was not conspiring to help dodgy civil rights lawyers continue bringing spurious claims to court?

[oldbluefox]

]
Do you have a link to your source Gill?

Yes.

I didn't post it, as I couldn't be bothered to run around after Barney, doing his job for him.

But here it is

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/a ... r-AA13J3nK

I know that if you REALLY wanted to have looked at this, you'd have Googled it, just like I had to

What a pity you cannot answer a civil question with a civil answer.
You criticise barney on the one hand for not posting a link but in your reply you didn't post one either which I find hypocritical but I suppose you do have the excuse of not wanting "to run around after Barney, doing his job for him".
Personally I find your posts needlessly confrontational as exhibited in your response to me.
But does it bother me? Naaaaah!!!

[oldbluefox]

I’m aware that I’m not a reliable source but as an update, overnight, another coach arrived at the Dilkhusa Hotel in Ilfracombe, with a new total of 100 illegal/asylum seekers.
The Tory MP and Tory council continue to be outraged.
The local tv station actually interviewed one of the men who seemed very confused as to how he landed in north Devon at 2 am.
Anyone who knows Ilfracombe knows it’s well off the beaten track and apparently, the onus is on the council to support these men.
It’s blindingly obvious that the council neither have the resources or the inclination to get involved.
Signing off from
An unreliable source

Have you got a link barney?

[barney]

I’m aware that I’m not a reliable source but as an update, overnight, another coach arrived at the Dilkhusa Hotel in Ilfracombe, with a new total of 100 illegal/asylum seekers.
The Tory MP and Tory council continue to be outraged.
The local tv station actually interviewed one of the men who seemed very confused as to how he landed in north Devon at 2 am.
Anyone who knows Ilfracombe knows it’s well off the beaten track and apparently, the onus is on the council to support these men.
It’s blindingly obvious that the council neither have the resources or the inclination to get involved.
Signing off from
An unreliable source

Have you got a link barney?

I could do it if I could be arsed.
I suppose it is maybe necessary when regular poster Ken claims that there is about 600,000 illegal immigrants in ‘this’ country !!
I’m guessing he means our country, not his, but I won’t ask for links on the amount of illegal immigrants in Northern Ireland

[Onelife]

It only takes one drug dealer to turn a housing estate into a stabbing zone… a few more to turn towns into no go areas…and a whole lot more to turn cities into every criminal activity imaginable.

Many of those entering our country come from countries that see the above as a way of life, and will, when they cannot support themselves, eventually fall prey to those who need or can teach them new skills to give them a better start in life.

We have gone way past the point of return in stopping the rot that has infected our country... and I for one feel very sad at the thought of my descendants seeing how right I was.

[Kendhni]

Just a thought. Of the 40,000 migrants that have arrived this year through irregular routes, approx. 10,000 will, at some point in the future, be deemed to be 'illegal'. There is somewhere in the region of 600,000 to 750,000 immigrants already deemed to be illegal in this country.

That means that the media have gaslighted some elements of society, whipping them up into a storm of indignation over what could be less than 1.5% of all illegal immigrants ... way to go the government in their successful manipulation of the population into ignoring the real issue caused by their own incompetence.

Why are you saying it's the govts fault that large numbers of failed asylum seekers are still in this country, when they would have been on a plane home long ago if the legal system was not conspiring to help dodgy civil rights lawyers continue bringing spurious claims to court?

You seem to misunderstand how the law works. A failure to achieve a prosecution does not mean anyone is dodgy, it means the prosecution failed to prove its case (for whatever reason). As you expect those arriving in this country to do, the indigenous population also needs to respect its own laws ... after all we created them, if they aren't fit for purpose then that is the governments fault for creating dodgy legislation.

As I said before, we need to explore why other countries successfully reject significantly higher numbers of those seeking asylum.

[Kendhni]

It only takes one drug dealer to turn a housing estate into a stabbing zone… a few more to turn towns into no go areas…and a whole lot more to turn cities into every criminal activity imaginable.

Many of those entering our country come from countries that see the above as a way of life, and will, when they cannot support themselves, eventually fall prey to those who need or can teach them new skills to give them a better start in life.

We have gone way past the point of return in stopping the rot that has infected our country... and I for one feel very sad at the thought of my descendants seeing how right I was.

It is good to finally see someone talking about the 98.5% of the current immigration problem in our country.

What you are describing is a failure of the home office/border force (let's face it, they are civil servants so failure is no surprise) and of policing (who couldn't find a booze up despite photographs and outright admissions). Every country is fighting the same battles, with some doing a better job than others.

Drug dealers existed long before people started entering our country (in fact the majority are British born). So the question is more about have those arriving in this country made things worse ... possibly yes, but considering those granted asylum are not allowed to work and are given a pittance to exist on, it does not surprise me that a small number resort to crime.

I present this next bit purely anecdotally as something I was told (I have no evidence for it being right or wrong). Some of those making their way to this country require interpreters. Where would the obvious place be to get them ... correct, from the many friends, family and fellow immigrants that speak English ... but they aren't allowed to do that! Why? For two reasons, a belief that a paid interpreter will be more trustworthy, and secondly because those seeking asylum are not allowed to work in the country and interpreting is considered a job.

[Stephen]

Strange that Davids post/name is showing on the home page as the last post from yesterday but in reality it’s Ken’s post that is the latest post, apart from mine just now.

[Kendhni]

Strange that Davids post/name is showing on the home page as the last post from yesterday but in reality it’s Ken’s post that is the latest post, apart from mine just now.

Blatant favouritism

[Stephen]

No doubt. Perks of being the guvnor.

I refreshed the page and it still showed ‘then’ as Davids post as the latest, yet opening the thread, yours Ken was showing. Strange.

Bl**dy gremlins

[Gill W]

What a pity you cannot answer a civil question with a civil answer.
You criticise barney on the one hand for not posting a link but in your reply you didn't post one either which I find hypocritical but I suppose you do have the excuse of not wanting "to run around after Barney, doing his job for him".
Personally I find your posts needlessly confrontational as exhibited in your response to me.
But does it bother me? Naaaaah!!!

I always feel that you have a certain 'edge' when you address me, so if you feel that I'm confrontational, then you are merely reaping what you sow.

But, if it doesn't bother you, why even mention it, unless you are seeking to have a dig at me

[oldbluefox]

I always feel that you have a certain 'edge' when you address me, so if you feel that I'm confrontational, then you are merely reaping what you sow.

But, if it doesn't bother you, why even mention it, unless you are seeking to have a dig at me

True to form. You are so predictable. There was no edge to my original perfectly civil question but if a civil question made you feel 'uncomfortable' that is not my problem and there is little I can do about it. I'm afraid playing your victim card doesn't wash Gill. You do indeed reap what you sow.

[Manoverboard]

It seems that there is a growing feeling of resentment about ' illegals ' in Kent ... had to happen.

[barney]

Kent has been at the sharp end for years Moby.
It was dealing with this long before it was ‘news’

The garden of England has pretty much turned into the compost heap due to massive over development and population explosion.
That’s why we made the conscious decision to leave.

Mrs B was born in Exeter with both sets of Grandparents from Bideford.
Every time we visited, I fell more and more in love with the area.
When I decided to call it a day work wise, it was a no brainer.
The pace and quality of life is such a massive improvement to what we had in the south east.
We lived in a village called Harrietsham and the housing development in that area exceeds the original village.
I personally think it’s unsustainable and eventually something will snap.
All due to uncontrolled immigration.
Councils plan on sensible projections of requirements.
If you have an unexpected 50k turn up, don’t be surprised that there is no services for them.
Kent schools don’t have places for local kids because of the spike in need.
It’s an inconvenient truth but the truth nonetheless.
What I find incredulous is the very same people who constantly complain about lack of services and facilities are the ones who claim to have no issues with mass immigration.
One naturally follows the other.
When we have immigration at the level it is, it’s actually impossible to keep up.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Re interpreters. We had this issue in the hospital I worked at. While professionals were more expensive they were preferred because they gave an accurate translation of what the patient was saying. The problem with family members is their interpretation was sometimes affected, intentionally or otherwise, by their own views. One could sometimes get their answer rather than the patient's.

But the issue of immigrants needing an interpreter raises two issues. It questions the idea they are coming here because they know the language and casts doubt on their ability to contribute to the economy.

[barney]

Re interpreters. We had this issue in the hospital I worked at. While professionals were more expensive they were preferred because they gave an accurate translation of what the patient was saying. The problem with family members is their interpretation was sometimes affected, intentionally or otherwise, by their own views. One could sometimes get their answer rather than the patient's.

But the issue of immigrants needing an interpreter raises two issues. It questions the idea they are coming here because they know the language and casts doubt on their ability to contribute to the economy.

All that the car washers need to say is Inside?

[Mervyn and Trish]

Re interpreters. We had this issue in the hospital I worked at. While professionals were more expensive they were preferred because they gave an accurate translation of what the patient was saying. The problem with family members is their interpretation was sometimes affected, intentionally or otherwise, by their own views. One could sometimes get their answer rather than the patient's.

But the issue of immigrants needing an interpreter raises two issues. It questions the idea they are coming here because they know the language and casts doubt on their ability to contribute to the economy.

All that the car washers need to say is Inside?