Current Affairs 2023

[towny44]

I'd agree with most that OL says except perhaps the bit about bringing back the nurse accommodation. I think that probably belonged to a past.era where nurses were almost universally young single women and I'm not sure how popular a return to those days would be. And I agree with David about the lack of nursing home beds. No surplus round our way for sure. But as I said before our town has two mothballed NHS convalescent wards. Get those staffed and open.

Who are you going to put in these mothballed convalescent homes, from my current understanding most patients discharged after surgery do not require any convalescence, and only a few need extra care that cannot be provided by family members. It is those who are elderley or infirm that need care , and they generally need long term care packages if they are to remain in their own homes, and it is the lack of care workers to provide this service that delays their discharge.
Most of the stroke patients, when my wife had hers, and later when our BIL had his, were either discharged to home or to care homes, a very small number went to Huudersfields one remaining convalescent hospital, and these were generally for short term care while a care package or care home availability was established.

[david63]

we had dinner with our friends yesterday…she being a trouble shooter for underperforming private care homes. She covers a wide area with several care homes within her remit… she said there were bed spaces in everyone of them, 20 in one home.

Must be a regional thing then.

The use of care homes/convalescent homes/halfway houses or whatever other name you want to give them will only be a short term, one off, solution to releasing hospital beds because once all those places are taken then we will be back to where we are nor.

At the end of the day the number of hospital beds is a finite resource, always has been and always will be.

[Onelife]

I'd agree with most that OL says except perhaps the bit about bringing back the nurse accommodation. I think that probably belonged to a past.era where nurses were almost universally young single women and I'm not sure how popular a return to those days would be. And I agree with David about the lack of nursing home beds. No surplus round our way for sure. But as I said before our town has two mothballed NHS convalescent wards. Get those staffed and open.

Who are you going to put in these mothballed convalescent homes, from my current understanding most patients discharged after surgery do not require any convalescence, and only a few need extra care that cannot be provided by family members. It is those who are elderley or infirm that need care , and they generally need long term care packages if they are to remain in their own homes, and it is the lack of care workers to provide this service that delays their discharge.
Most of the stroke patients, when my wife had hers, and later when our BIL had his, were either discharged to home or to care homes, a very small number went to Huudersfields one remaining convalescent hospital, and these were generally for short term care while a care package or care home availability was established.

Not sure if your post is addressed to me or Sir Mev but either way I think you are missing the point John…patients that are leaving hospital, especially the old and vulnerable could as you say be moved on quicker if they had a next of kin prepared to look after them, but a considerable amount them of don’t have this option and become Hospital Bed Cloggers due to no forward planning options.

[Onelife]

we had dinner with our friends yesterday…she being a trouble shooter for underperforming private care homes. She covers a wide area with several care homes within her remit… she said there were bed spaces in everyone of them, 20 in one home.

Must be a regional thing then.

That would depend on how many private nursing homes you can vouch for that don't have spare places.

The use of care homes/convalescent homes/halfway houses or whatever other name you want to give them will only be a short term, one off, solution to releasing hospital beds because once all those places are taken then we will be back to where we are nor.

I did say "in the short term" and not a be all solution.

At the end of the day the number of hospital beds is a finite resource, always has been and always will be.

[david63]

That would depend on how many private nursing homes you can vouch for that don't have spare places.

As of today I cannot personally vouch for any. All I am saying is that over the years of trying to find a place in a care home for my father, mother and mother-in-law (not all at the same time) that there have been no "spare" beds and there have been waiting lists.

[Onelife]

That would depend on how many private nursing homes you can vouch for that don't have spare places.

As of today I cannot personally vouch for any. All I am saying is that over the years of trying to find a place in a care home for my father, mother and mother-in-law (not all at the same time) that there have been no "spare" beds and there have been waiting lists.

Fair enough David…there are good, not so good and bad private nursing homes which is probably one of the reasons some find it difficult to find a suitable home for their loved ones.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'd agree with most that OL says except perhaps the bit about bringing back the nurse accommodation. I think that probably belonged to a past.era where nurses were almost universally young single women and I'm not sure how popular a return to those days would be. And I agree with David about the lack of nursing home beds. No surplus round our way for sure. But as I said before our town has two mothballed NHS convalescent wards. Get those staffed and open.

Sir Merv, I’m not sure why you should think encouraging young women or men into nursing by way of making it easy to be close to their place of work and living in subsidised accommodation would be a retrograde step. Nurses sh*t patterns often mean they are leaving late at night or early in the morning, the last thing they want to be doing is running to catch a bus after a long hard shift. The NHS need to be a far more attractive proposition if it is going to attract young people into the profession, I would have thought?.

I'm not against the idea. But my understanding is the old nurses homes largely closed because of lack of demand. They were in the main pretty basic with residents getting little more than a bedroom in most cases, often not even en suite. All other facilities shared. And often ruled over with a rod of iron wielded by a dragon warden. No boys in rooms after 8pm! That's what I meant by outdated. The nurses preferred the better facilities and greater freedom of living at home with family or sharing with friends.

It may be there is a new demand driven by increasing housing costs. But if so it would have to be met by something much better than before, more akin to affordable housing in proper independent apartments as a minimum. But would staff prefer that or a decent pay rise to do their own thing?

My preference is actually to give NHS and care staff the decent pay rise they deserve and need to encourage recruitment and be prepared to face down the cries of "me too".

[towny44]

I'd agree with most that OL says except perhaps the bit about bringing back the nurse accommodation. I think that probably belonged to a past.era where nurses were almost universally young single women and I'm not sure how popular a return to those days would be. And I agree with David about the lack of nursing home beds. No surplus round our way for sure. But as I said before our town has two mothballed NHS convalescent wards. Get those staffed and open.

Who are you going to put in these mothballed convalescent homes, from my current understanding most patients discharged after surgery do not require any convalescence, and only a few need extra care that cannot be provided by family members. It is those who are elderley or infirm that need care , and they generally need long term care packages if they are to remain in their own homes, and it is the lack of care workers to provide this service that delays their discharge.
Most of the stroke patients, when my wife had hers, and later when our BIL had his, were either discharged to home or to care homes, a very small number went to Huudersfields one remaining convalescent hospital, and these were generally for short term care while a care package or care home availability was established.

Not sure if your post is addressed to me or Sir Mev but either way I think you are missing the point John…patients that are leaving hospital, especially the old and vulnerable could as you say be moved on quicker if they had a next of kin prepared to look after them, but a considerable amount them of don’t have this option and become Hospital Bed Cloggers due to no forward planning options.

But why bother with re-opening old and outdated facilities which will need millions to bring them up to a satisfactory standard and will need staffing and administering. We will still need to ensure the care system can cope with all the demand otherwise once the convalescent homes are full we will be back with the same bed blocking problem. Make sure the carers are paid enough to increase the demand for these jobs and the bed blocking disappears.

[david63]

Interestingly our local hospital trust has just taken over a care home for this very purpose.

The problem with using some beds in private care is is one of funding and that is why some homes are reluctant to take "funded" residents. As I understand it funded residents of care homes go via the local authority and there is no direct route from hospital - I am not saying that this could not be changed.

But the problem is that the LAs will not pay the "going rate" to place residents in homes which means that those who pay their own way end up subsidising the "funded" residents - in some cases to the tune of several hundred pounds a week. When my mother was in a care home the LA would only pay around £300 a week but my mother was paying over £600.

[Onelife]

Hi John, as I said, there are no easy answers but the present crisis isn’t going away without some joined up thinking. It has already been stated that the backlog of patients needing treatment could take years to clear so it makes sence to put in place a strategy that moves this process along faster than it is presently moving. Whilst we need to use every penny wisely a few million falls into insignificance compared to the pain and distress many are going through because there are no beds for post operative care. I do agree with you about paying carers better but don’t fool yourself into thinking that carers have the skill levels that can sustain ongoing treatment that many patients require during their rehabilitation…moving forward, the powers that be need to ask themselves why many nurses and carers are choosing to do agency work rather than working for the NHS.

With regard to the use of convalescence facilities one would hope that this would be a short to mid-term fix to get through the situation the NHS is presently facing.

My wife got out of Nursing because of the lack of joined up thinking in senior management which consequently put untold pressure on the quality care she was able to give her patients…she took early retirement and in doing so took her vast experience with her…you use them you lose them.

But as we have all said money is what is needed and I don’t think many of us would object if we knew a ring-fenced tax was to be introduced to pay for our ongoing health care…we just need to put our priorities in order of what we think is of value.

We all know the NHS is the best institution we have and for it to stay that way we need to show those that are willing to enter this profession that they are respected by those who decide their pay and working conditions. We need to make the profession as attractive as possible with benefits that respect the toll it takes on Nurses physical health, their home life and in many case their mental health.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I don't agree that it necessarily takes a high level of care to get patients out of hospital. 9 days after my major heart op I was discharged home to the care of my wife who has no professional nursing training. If she hasn't been available all I would needed would have been the equivalent level of expertise elsewhere. Otherwise I'd have become a bed blocker.

[Onelife]

I don't agree that it necessarily takes a high level of care to get patients out of hospital. 9 days after my major heart op I was discharged home to the care of my wife who has no professional nursing training. If she hasn't been available all I would needed would have been the equivalent level of expertise elsewhere. Otherwise I'd have become a bed blocker.

Neither do I Sir Merv, it would depend on the level of treatment required for each individual patient, in your case I presume it would have been a closed wound like my recent spine operation but had you had drains in or a wound dressing then the skill level required increases with the level of risk to the patient.
This is why a halfway house where a qualified nurse is on call to do such levels of nursing would be beneficial, especially in the numbers, we are talking about in freeing up beds….home visits would I imagine be unable to cope.

P.s on a more serious note having read my previous posts do you think I have the potential to make a good President?

[towny44]

I don't agree that it necessarily takes a high level of care to get patients out of hospital. 9 days after my major heart op I was discharged home to the care of my wife who has no professional nursing training. If she hasn't been available all I would needed would have been the equivalent level of expertise elsewhere. Otherwise I'd have become a bed blocker.

Neither do I Sir Merv, it would depend on the level of treatment required for each individual patient, in your case I presume it would have been a closed wound like my recent spine operation but had you had drains in or a wound dressing then the skill level required increases with the level of risk to the patient.
This is why a halfway house where a qualified nurse is on call to do such levels of nursing would be beneficial, especially in the numbers, we are talking about in freeing up beds….home visits would I imagine be unable to cope.

P.s on a more serious note having read my previous posts do you think I have the potential to make a good President?

Keith, modern surgery is now far less invasive that it was even 20 yrs ago, so recuperation is quicker and as Merv said does not require a high level of nursing care. Medical patients do vary, but even here with modern medicines recuperation is faster. The vast majority of bed blocking is due to elderley infirm patients who will need ongoing care if they are to remain in their homes, ergo it's far more carers that are needed not convalescent care.

[Whynd1]

Re the nursing home argument, mum is 93 and has been there about 8 years. Then there was a wait list. Matron tells me since the pandemic families want to look after their elderly relatives at home if they can. Families were upset about lack of visiting etc during covid. Where my mum is is excellent and is highly regarded and have no trouble retaining staff, but they do have a few spare rooms at the moment.
Mum was in a coma last summer for a bit and has since been unwell and I have seen at first hand the love care and attention the staff give her. They certainly deserve a higher wage.

Lindsey

[Onelife]

I don't agree that it necessarily takes a high level of care to get patients out of hospital. 9 days after my major heart op I was discharged home to the care of my wife who has no professional nursing training. If she hasn't been available all I would needed would have been the equivalent level of expertise elsewhere. Otherwise I'd have become a bed blocker.

Neither do I Sir Merv, it would depend on the level of treatment required for each individual patient, in your case I presume it would have been a closed wound like my recent spine operation but had you had drains in or a wound dressing then the skill level required increases with the level of risk to the patient.
This is why a halfway house where a qualified nurse is on call to do such levels of nursing would be beneficial, especially in the numbers, we are talking about in freeing up beds….home visits would I imagine be unable to cope.

P.s on a more serious note having read my previous posts do you think I have the potential to make a good President?

Keith, modern surgery is now far less invasive that it was even 20 yrs ago, so recuperation is quicker and as Merv said does not require a high level of nursing care. Medical patients do vary, but even here with modern medicines recuperation is faster. The vast majority of bed blocking is due to elderley infirm patients who will need ongoing care if they are to remain in their homes, ergo it's far more carers that are needed not convalescent care.

I wouldn’t disagree with any of that John other than to say that the present situation within home care is at best poor, with most patients getting basic cover. Those leaving hospital after such things as fractures, leg ulcers, bowel resections etc, etc would, I suggest, need more than two 20-minute slots to look after their on going needs, it is therefore my unqualified view that a convalescent placement would be more beneficial to the patient’s recovery than pushing them back home before they are medically fit to do so.

[Mervyn and Trish]

So Covid continues to be one of the factors causing problems in the NHS. China has taken the brakes off and Covid is running riot there. Visitors from China will be tested. But will not be required to isolate. They will instead be free to spread the virus including potentially new variations. Can anyone see the sense in that?

[towny44]

So Covid continues to be one of the factors causing problems in the NHS. China has taken the brakes off and Covid is running riot there. Visitors from China will be tested. But will not be required to isolate. They will instead be free to spread the virus including potentially new variations. Can anyone see the sense in that?

What happens if they test positive?

[Onelife]

So Covid continues to be one of the factors causing problems in the NHS. China has taken the brakes off and Covid is running riot there. Visitors from China will be tested. But will not be required to isolate. They will instead be free to spread the virus including potentially new variations. Can anyone see the sense in that?

What happens if they test positive?

"But will not be required to isolate".

Sir Merv

[Onelife]

So Covid continues to be one of the factors causing problems in the NHS. China has taken the brakes off and Covid is running riot there. Visitors from China will be tested. But will not be required to isolate. They will instead be free to spread the virus including potentially new variations. Can anyone see the sense in that?

I have to say I was surprised, especially when there is no clear data on how bad things really are in China.

[screwy]

Why does nothing surprise us anymore.?

[towny44]

So Covid continues to be one of the factors causing problems in the NHS. China has taken the brakes off and Covid is running riot there. Visitors from China will be tested. But will not be required to isolate. They will instead be free to spread the virus including potentially new variations. Can anyone see the sense in that?

What happens if they test positive?

"But will not be required to isolate".

Sir Merv

Why are we bothering to trst them, if that's happening

[Stephen]

The end is nye

[Mervyn and Trish]

So Covid continues to be one of the factors causing problems in the NHS. China has taken the brakes off and Covid is running riot there. Visitors from China will be tested. But will not be required to isolate. They will instead be free to spread the virus including potentially new variations. Can anyone see the sense in that?

What happens if they test positive?

Nothing other than recorded for statistical monitoring purposes. Free to go and spread it.

[Mervyn and Trish]

The end is nye

Sorry I'll adjust my clothing....

[Bensham33]

Where's me masks? Good job I didn't through them out.