Current Affairs 2023

[barney]

Yeah, I went to Tesco this morning and got everything I wanted.
The tomatoes were low and not a choice of fourteen varieties but they had plenty of everything so it’s obviously regional.
First world problems in my opinion.
I would like us to get to a position where we don’t need to import food or energy.
Every county should have a Thanet Earth as they have in Kent.
It should be government subsidised to get them off the ground.
The idiots are content to spend billions on a train line that helps a few but fail in the bigger picture.

[towny44]

Yeah, I went to Tesco this morning and got everything I wanted.
The tomatoes were low and not a choice of fourteen varieties but they had plenty of everything so it’s obviously regional.
First world problems in my opinion.
I would like us to get to a position where we don’t need to import food or energy.
Every county should have a Thanet Earth as they have in Kent.
It should be government subsidised to get them off the ground.
The idiots are content to spend billions on a train line that helps a few but fail in the bigger picture.

Neither you nor any govt are going to beat market forces, when imported produce is far cheaper than locally produced food, then all you get is wet trousers if you try to change people's preferences.

[barney]

Yeah, I went to Tesco this morning and got everything I wanted.
The tomatoes were low and not a choice of fourteen varieties but they had plenty of everything so it’s obviously regional.
First world problems in my opinion.
I would like us to get to a position where we don’t need to import food or energy.
Every county should have a Thanet Earth as they have in Kent.
It should be government subsidised to get them off the ground.
The idiots are content to spend billions on a train line that helps a few but fail in the bigger picture.

Neither you nor any govt are going to beat market forces, when imported produce is far cheaper than locally produced food, then all you get is wet trousers if you try to change people's preferences.

Then what is the point of government ?
Why is imported cheaper ?
It has a much higher footprint.
Why is it cheaper to produce tomatoes indoors in The Netherlands than it is in the UK?
The answer is, it's not.
The UK produces about 60% of our own food but it should be nearer 80% in my opinion.
It's because of ridiculous red tape, nimbys and a totally ineffective government.
Google Thanet Earth and you will see what's easily possible.
They are working on AI & robotics to try and eleminate the need for cheap labour to pick the produce.
Our government should be subsidising ventures like this all over the country.

[towny44]

Yeah, I went to Tesco this morning and got everything I wanted.
The tomatoes were low and not a choice of fourteen varieties but they had plenty of everything so it’s obviously regional.
First world problems in my opinion.
I would like us to get to a position where we don’t need to import food or energy.
Every county should have a Thanet Earth as they have in Kent.
It should be government subsidised to get them off the ground.
The idiots are content to spend billions on a train line that helps a few but fail in the bigger picture.

Neither you nor any govt are going to beat market forces, when imported produce is far cheaper than locally produced food, then all you get is wet trousers if you try to change people's preferences.

Then what is the point of government ?
Why is imported cheaper ?
It has a much higher footprint.
Why is it cheaper to produce tomatoes indoors in The Netherlands than it is in the UK?
The answer is, it's not.
The UK produces about 60% of our own food but it should be nearer 80% in my opinion.
It's because of ridiculous red tape, nimbys and a totally ineffective government.
Google Thanet Earth and you will see what's easily possible.
They are working on AI & robotics to try and eleminate the need for cheap labour to pick the produce.
Our government should be subsidising ventures like this all over the country.

For salad crops you need a lot of sunshine, checkout Spains compared to the best places in the UK, and you can easily see why Spain and Morocco can easily produce cheap crops without the need for glasshouses and heating, and even with the extra transport costs they still manage to supply them cheaper. No one can beat the climate or the market, regardless as to how much better it would be if we could produce more of our own food, year round.

[barney]

Neither you nor any govt are going to beat market forces, when imported produce is far cheaper than locally produced food, then all you get is wet trousers if you try to change people's preferences.

Then what is the point of government ?
Why is imported cheaper ?
It has a much higher footprint.
Why is it cheaper to produce tomatoes indoors in The Netherlands than it is in the UK?
The answer is, it's not.
The UK produces about 60% of our own food but it should be nearer 80% in my opinion.
It's because of ridiculous red tape, nimbys and a totally ineffective government.
Google Thanet Earth and you will see what's easily possible.
They are working on AI & robotics to try and eleminate the need for cheap labour to pick the produce.
Our government should be subsidising ventures like this all over the country.

For salad crops you need a lot of sunshine, checkout Spains compared to the best places in the UK, and you can easily see why Spain and Morocco can easily produce cheap crops without the need for glasshouses and heating, and even with the extra transport costs they still manage to supply them cheaper. No one can beat the climate or the market, regardless as to how much better it would be if we could produce more of our own food, year round.

Nearly all of Spains crops are grown in polytunnels.
There are literally miles and miles of them. Generally staffed with illegal African workers who are paid a pittance. Virtually slave labour.
Easy to check.
They can be seen from space.

[towny44]

Then what is the point of government ?
Why is imported cheaper ?
It has a much higher footprint.
Why is it cheaper to produce tomatoes indoors in The Netherlands than it is in the UK?
The answer is, it's not.
The UK produces about 60% of our own food but it should be nearer 80% in my opinion.
It's because of ridiculous red tape, nimbys and a totally ineffective government.
Google Thanet Earth and you will see what's easily possible.
They are working on AI & robotics to try and eleminate the need for cheap labour to pick the produce.
Our government should be subsidising ventures like this all over the country.

For salad crops you need a lot of sunshine, checkout Spains compared to the best places in the UK, and you can easily see why Spain and Morocco can easily produce cheap crops without the need for glasshouses and heating, and even with the extra transport costs they still manage to supply them cheaper. No one can beat the climate or the market, regardless as to how much better it would be if we could produce more of our own food, year round.

Nearly all of Spains crops are grown in polytunnels.
There are literally miles and miles of them. Generally staffed with illegal African workers who are paid a pittance. Virtually slave labour.
Easy to check.
They can be seen from space.

That may well be true Barney, but it just reinforces my point that you cant beat the market, even if the producers paid higher wages, with their climate advantage they would still undercut any UK producer except in high summer, when you will see that little red tractor on a lot more salad crops on the supermarket shelves.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm with Barney on this. And not in a political way. We used to produce a lot more of our own food. But with successive governments, of all colours, aided and abetted by the EU Common Agricultural Policy, it's gone down and down. The current energy crisis should show us the insanity of dependency on other countries for essential supplies. We're free of the EU now and agriculture is one area in which we should take advantage of that. Even if it meant some produce would be more expensive at some times of the year, overall we would win, both in food security and balance of payments.

[Stephen]

I’m in agreement to, but where are you going to get the extra land for all these crops. The countryside is fast becoming one big housing development. The rate things are moving you’ll be lucky to have an allotment.

[barney]

Get on a plane and you’ll see how much land is available. (Or google maps)
The urban areas are over developed but rurally, there is plenty.
Thanet Earth is just outside Manston but you’d never know it was there and it’s huge.
My belief is that this is what government is for.
To protect its citizens in every way.

[Mervyn and Trish]

There is masses of good agricultural land lying unused. Just think of Set-aside subsidies where landowners were paid fortunes not to grow crops. An EU scheme by the way. Largely designed to protect inefficient French farmers from competition.

[Stephen]

I agree with you barney. But currently the government is hell bent on building houses. There may well be plenty of rural land, be it used or unused, but for how long. Farming land where I live is already being developed on at an alarming rate, and not just a few house but massive estates. And I feel it’s only going to get worse.


And unless I can turn left (never have) you won’t get me on a plane again unless absolutely necessary

[Onelife]

I agree with you barney. But currently the government is hell bent on building houses. There may well be plenty of rural land, be it used or unused, but for how long. Farming land where I live is already being developed on at an alarming rate, and not just a few house but massive estates. And I feel it’s only going to get worse.


And unless I can turn left (never have) you won’t get me on a plane again unless absolutely necessary

You could move to lovely Shropshire…open countryside as far as the eye can see…Nah! Thinking about it, for the wellbeing of lovely Shropshire you best stick with your concreate jungle. Enjoy!

[Stephen]

Head North …..wash your mouth out.

[Ray B]

You shop at a farm shop, and while veg grown just outside the barn may be fresh, they still cost more than the the same veg the farmer has just sent to the supermarket.
You stop for a drink at the Brewery Tap and it's a lot more in price than the pub 100yds up the road selling the same.???

[Mervyn and Trish]

I guess it's that the supermarkets screw them on costs so they have to make it up somehow. A bit like care homes get nailed down and make a loss on publicly funded placements so subsidise them by those paying their own fees.

[Onelife]

You shop at a farm shop, and while veg grown just outside the barn may be fresh, they still cost more than the the same veg the farmer has just sent to the supermarket.
You stop for a drink at the Brewery Tap and it's a lot more in price than the pub 100yds up the road selling the same.???

I wouldn’t argue against that Ray but for home grow fruit and veg to find an equivalent price level we need to move towards producing more of it and not importing it.

[david63]

We can end up with a vicious circle here.

We need to grow more crops, which means that we need more people to plant, harvest and pack them. These people need somewhere to live so we build more houses on the land we need for growing crops which means that we have people living in houses but no crops - there is a fault in this logic somewhere!!!

[Mervyn and Trish]

I think the fallacy in that argument is twofold. Firstly there are modern food production methods we can invest in that are less labour intensive. Secondly there are plenty of brownfield sites we can build new homes on without touching agricultural land.

[barney]

Hydroponics and AI is the future for food.

[Stephen]

I think the fallacy in that argument is twofold. Firstly there are modern food production methods we can invest in that are less labour intensive. Secondly there are plenty of brownfield sites we can build new homes on without touching agricultural land.

But are there large enough brown field sites for developers. They’re not interested in the odd plot for a few houses, they often want hundreds of acres for their building projects.

[Ray B]

Betty Boothroyd who ruled in the Commons, an inspirational woman and a very respected woman, RIP

[oldbluefox]

Indeed Ray. She is a Speaker I remember with great fondness. We have had some great speakers in my lifetime (and one who was not great!!) but she was amongst the best. RIP Betty.

[Stephen]

Quite a character.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64786680

Indeed, R.I.P Betty

[Mervyn and Trish]

Sad news. Certainly no-one in her league since.

[oldbluefox]

Maybe not like Betty but I like the current one. The southerner character was decidedly dodgy. Stick to those from the north