Who the hell do they think they are demanding an increase of 35%
I agree 100% especially when some of those going on strike are, allegedly, earning over £80k
I do however believe that there needs to be some changes in junior doctor's working conditions both for their benefit and to aid recruitment. I don't think that a hospital doctor should work a 12 hour shift and then be on call for the next 12 hours, getting little if any sleep. It is illegal for an HGV driver to work those hours and both have peoples lives in their hands.
My great niece has just qualified as a junior doctor after seven years of intensive education. She has worked hard (I would say that wouldn't I?) and has always been very committed to her studies. She currently earns £31,000, works the night shift and looks after two wards. During her probationary year she has had to take a further two exams costing her £1000 each.
Meanwhile her brother drifted through university, has just left and is now earning much more than she is. Needless to say she is not best pleased and is already thinking of following in the footsteps of her friends, leaving the UK and relocating to New Zealand or America where she can earn much more in hospitals which are better equipped than our own.
The major problem as I see it is that every time the government need to rein in spending it is the public sector which bears the brunt with low pay settlements, or worse still, pay freezes and a cut back in budgets whether that be hospitals, schools or whatever. Very often there is little extra money from the government so it has to come from departmental budgets which in turn leads to lack of equipment.
Another of my great nephews has recently taken on an apprenticeship at a ship building firm. He is paid well and got a £1000 bonus at Christmas and another £1000 shortly after Christmas.
I have every sympathy with junior doctors considering the length of time they spend studying and the responsibilities they have.If we don't look after them they will leave and whilst 35% is unrealistic the government needs to pull its finger out and start negotiating. Other countries spend much more on their health systems and if we are to improve the NHS we are going to need to finance it properly and stop taking doctors, nurses and all others working in the public sector for granted.
Agree with much of what you say Foxy, but I get the impression that the public sector workers have had their unions hijacked by extreme militants whose aim is to bring down the govt rather than seek a reasonable pay settlement.
if we are to improve the NHS we are going to need to finance it properly and stop taking doctors, nurses and all others working in the public sector for granted.
Before we do that we, as a nation, have to decide what it is that we want.
Do we want an "all singing, all dancing, all bells and whistles" health service and if so are we prepared to pay for it - either through taxation, insurance or some other means?
Or do we want a basic health service that we can afford without any extra expense?
Currently we are trying to provided the former on a budget and it is unsustainable.
Until that decision is made then we are never going to move the health service forward.
I agree with much of what as been said but a major part of the problem lies in the fact that public sector pay has lagged behind many of those in the private sector, where sometimes the pay is not particularly good but is made up for by bonuses and perks. There is no such thing in the public sector. Relatives of mine who work as tradesmen in the building trade earn much more (and can often get their home repairs and alterations done very cheaply through their links in the trade).
I never was keen on unions whom I saw as pretty toothless anyway. In 40 years of teaching I never went on strike, simply because I didn't believe they achieved much. A much better strategy would have been a work to rule - teach the kids but once the 35-40 hours were up that would be it until the next day - no marking, no lesson prepping, no clubs, no meetings, no parent evenings, no reports etc and the whole system would grind to a halt. I was often told not to expect a high salary as teaching was a 'vocation'. Unfortunately 'vocations' don't pay the bills and I feel we have reached the stage where many feel used and worthless as budgets are squeezed, resources are more and more limited and the whole system is beginning to collapse for these disputes are about more than pay.
I am afraid if we are to get the services we expect we are going to have to pay more. David is absolutely correct, whether it be by direct taxation, insurance or other means. Other countries get a much better service but they pay for it either directly or indirectly and we are going to need to do the same. Similarly we need to cut back on some of the waste in resources, eliminate some of the malingerers and attention seekers so we can treat the genuinely ill and deserving. A&E should be for what the title suggests. My experience is that half of those who are presenting should be quickly put out of the door. A bent eyelash is not an emergency (you know what I mean).
So indeed, put 2p or even 4p on tax, cut out the waste, reduce the numbers in management, pay and treat our doctors and teachers well and hopefully we'll get to see a doctor face to face again. The Tories have not done well by public services. Sadly there is nothing coming from the Labour party to suggest they would do any better.
So indeed, put 2p or even 4p on tax, cut out the waste, reduce the numbers in management, pay and treat our doctors and teachers well and hopefully we'll get to see a doctor face to face again.
You’ll be Lucy Foxy.
Our practice introduced a system in December 2022 so that all the partner GP’s, seven in total, now have their clinics as telephone appointments, bringing in people that need to be seen face-to-face accordingly. Well I can tell you that doesn’t happen which makes me wonder what are these partner GP’s on 90k doing all day.
There is much I agree with in most of the comments above, however, I don’t agree with Stephen calling you Lucy, Foxy…last week you said it was Alice.
There are many professions where employees have PhD’s, as is the case where my daughter works, some with many years’ experiences but none, less top management earning over 40k a year. I do think pay structures should reflect their commitment in terms of study but one should also take into consideration for potential earnings for a particular profession which in the case of doctors is substantial.
Hope the punters are generous to you over the Easter period, Lucy.
Last edited by Onelife on 09 Apr 2023, 19:10, edited 1 time in total.
Our practice introduced a system in December 2022 so that all the partner GP’s, seven in total, now have their clinics as telephone appointments, bringing in people that need to be seen face-to-face accordingly. Well I can tell you that doesn’t happen which makes me wonder what are these partner GP’s on 90k doing all day.
Take your choice Stephen. Have unwell patients coughing and sneezing with a funny distinctive odours entering your consulting room, or sit in your chair with feet on the desk chomping on a rich tea biscuit and a cup of tea/coffee telephoning patients.
Last edited by david63 on 10 Apr 2023, 12:35, edited 1 time in total.
Reason:Fixed quote formatting
My choice is I want to see a doctor face to face who can give me a proper visual diagnosis and not second guess over a phone. As for coughing, sneezing and funny smells, I can’t help that and is par for the course for doctors.
Last edited by Stephen on 10 Apr 2023, 11:42, edited 1 time in total.
The government won't even talk to the doctors union, no wonder the doctors are angry. Whether you agree with the strike or not the government should be bending over backwards and doing all they can to stop this strike. If people die because of this action then the Tories will blame the doctors but it's them that will have blood on their hands.
There are some situations where a telephone appointment is fine, such as giving you the results from tests, but there are many situations where it is impossible to diagnose a patient over the phone - as my GP told me when one of the nurse practitioners misdiagnosed me a couple of years ago.
Make the most of this PTE because I agree with you!!!
I think it is appalling that Steven Barclay will not negotiate. The 35% represents the amount doctors' pay has fallen back over the past 10-15 years and it is unrealistic to think they would get it but at least the government should be coming forward with an agreement which would appease them and a hope that pay and condition issues would be addressed in the future.
It seems to me that Barclay and Keegan are spoiling for a fight with the unions and either do not understand the grievances being aired or are not bothered. Either way the unrest will continue with many in the professions simply leaving which is not good news for the NHS or the education system.
The government won't even talk to the doctors union
Understandable when the BMA are demanding 35% and won't even start discussions until that is on the table. There is no way that they are going to get anything near that and the sooner they realise it the sooner some sensible negotiating can take place.
I am sure everyone on here would love to have a 35% rise in their income but I suspect that any rises will be far short of that - mine is 5%
There are some situations where a telephone appointment is fine, such as giving you the results from tests, but there are many situations where it is impossible to diagnose a patient over the phone - as my GP told me when one of the nurse practitioners misdiagnosed me a couple of years ago.
The government won't even talk to the doctors union
Understandable when the BMA are demanding 35% and won't even start discussions until that is on the table. There is no way that they are going to get anything near that and the sooner they realise it the sooner some sensible negotiating can take place.
I am sure everyone on here would love to have a 35% rise in their income but I suspect that any rises will be far short of that - mine is 5%
My choice is I want to see a doctor face to face who can give me a proper visual diagnosis and not second guess over a phone. As for coughing, sneezing and funny smells, I can’t help that and is par for the course for doctors.
Here’s your chance to agree with me …. I read that the carriage chosen to pull the luggage at the coronation will have hydraulic suspension, a heating system, lighting, electric windows and air conditioning.
They could have borrowed my ride on mower at a fraction of the cost.
I also see that they have cut the route down to around 1.2 miles unlike the late Queen’s Coronation which was over 6 miles…are they afraid there will be a low turnout for this historic waste of money?
Can’t wait for the Royal correspondents announcing that there were crowds as far as the eye could see… twenty deep in places
Last edited by Onelife on 10 Apr 2023, 13:50, edited 1 time in total.
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