Nothing wrong with the system, it's the people with power that's the problem. They all think they are above the rest of us and they can do what they like.Onelife wrote: 21 Apr 2023, 14:16And it will keep turning until such time that we have a different political system, imopaultheagle wrote: 21 Apr 2023, 14:05Dominic Raab the bully has resigned. Sunak had appointed Oliver Dowden as his new deputy.
The merry-go-round of this government keeps turning.
Current Affairs 2023
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paultheagle
- Second Officer

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
Up the Palace
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Onelife
- Captain

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
It’s the system that keeps the powerful in power….if you know something turns sour you don’t keep drinking it.
Last edited by Onelife on 21 Apr 2023, 16:19, edited 1 time in total.
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Gill W
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Re: Current Affairs 2023
A typically graceless resignation letter from Raab, and it's made Sunak look weak for not sacking him yesterdaypaultheagle wrote: 21 Apr 2023, 14:05Dominic Raab the bully has resigned. Sunak had appointed Oliver Dowden as his new deputy.
The merry-go-round of this government keeps turning.
Gill
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Onelife
- Captain

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
Should have stuck with Theresa…one of a dwindling amount of honest politicians 
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kaymar
- Senior Second Officer

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
From what little I know of it, it seems as though a small number of "senior civil servants" don't like to be challenged or questioned and if they are, they go running to teacher saying that that nasty man is bullying them. What are Ministers for if not to question the actions of civil servants who are supposed to be there to support government, not to try to push through their own agenda. These claims of"bullying" have gone gone too far - if you can't take genuine criticism then get out and leave it to those who can.
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oldbluefox
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Re: Current Affairs 2023
Smacks of a snowflake generation who don't like being told what to do and are easily offended.
I was taught to be cautious
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Mervyn and Trish
- Commodore

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
I'm inclined to agree with both of those comments. Of course bullying is wrong but only two out of eight allegations were upheld and they were towards the milder end of what we might call bullying. Specifically accusations of shouting and swearing were not upheld. So do we accept they were untrue?
It is said that senior Civil Servants were being deliberately obstructive of government policy. Shall we compare call them Sir Humphrey? They need to remember they implement policy, not make it.
It may be Raab did not handle their obstruction, and in some cases, incompetence well and maybe needs lessons in man management. But it does seem there is a culture problem within the Civil Sevice that needs addressing too. The left are cockahoop at present but they need remember their turn to deal with Sir Humphrey will come.
It is said that senior Civil Servants were being deliberately obstructive of government policy. Shall we compare call them Sir Humphrey? They need to remember they implement policy, not make it.
It may be Raab did not handle their obstruction, and in some cases, incompetence well and maybe needs lessons in man management. But it does seem there is a culture problem within the Civil Sevice that needs addressing too. The left are cockahoop at present but they need remember their turn to deal with Sir Humphrey will come.
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Ray B
- Senior First Officer

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
I'm in total agreement with Kayma, been saying it for some time. To me they cannot except a good old fashioned ball*cking if they fail to produce what was expected from them.
Where do you draw the line between pulling someone up to do better where it's been blatantly obvious they are under performing, and Bullying. Some civil servants may indeed have their own agender.
Where do you draw the line between pulling someone up to do better where it's been blatantly obvious they are under performing, and Bullying. Some civil servants may indeed have their own agender.
Last edited by Ray B on 21 Apr 2023, 18:53, edited 2 times in total.
Don't worry, be happy
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paultheagle
- Second Officer

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
So it appears that Raab did nothing wrong It's timid civil servants who don't like being shouted at making an almighty fuss about nothing. So why did Dominic Raab find it necessary to resign? and where's Sunak in all of this? Why is he so quiet and why hasn't he come out and defended his deputy?
Perhaps there's some truth in the accusations after all.
Perhaps there's some truth in the accusations after all.
Up the Palace
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Onelife
- Captain

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
I think there is probably a lot of truth to what Kaymar and Sir Merv have said nevertheless the complaint/s of bullying have have been upheld…bulling in the workplace takes many forms but all can be devastating for those on the receiving end, the consequence of which rarely makes for a constructive working environment. I do however accept that a small number of civil servants can undermine the workings of Government…the supposed impartiality of the civil service is questionably, not least with such things as Brexit. I think many of them allow their own political beliefs/agendas to dictate how they think Government should be run…the whole set up works against the country’s best interests.imo
Whilst there are many factors to what is becoming another pantomime, the introduction of cameras into the HOP which has led to far more grandstanding than before they were introduced….Sir Kier is a prime example
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Bring back Theresa
Whilst there are many factors to what is becoming another pantomime, the introduction of cameras into the HOP which has led to far more grandstanding than before they were introduced….Sir Kier is a prime example
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Bring back Theresa
Last edited by Onelife on 21 Apr 2023, 19:12, edited 2 times in total.
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oldbluefox
- Ex Team Member
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Re: Current Affairs 2023
There are occasions when you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Of course the Tories will defend and the opposition will criticise. That's what they do but whatever course of action they took they would be criticised.
Of course the Tories will defend and the opposition will criticise. That's what they do but whatever course of action they took they would be criticised.
I was taught to be cautious
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Onelife
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Re: Current Affairs 2023
Does that amount to a broken political system?oldbluefox wrote: 21 Apr 2023, 19:11There are occasions when you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
Of course the Tories will defend and the opposition will criticise. That's what they do but whatever course of action they took they would be criticised.
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oldbluefox
- Ex Team Member
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Re: Current Affairs 2023
It's a game they all play. Maybe a flawed system but the alternative is more flawed.
I don't get overly excited about those things I cannot change, too busy sorting those I can change...... and looking forward to the Coronation!!!
I don't get overly excited about those things I cannot change, too busy sorting those I can change...... and looking forward to the Coronation!!!
I was taught to be cautious
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Stephen
- Commodore

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
I've got my new BBQ on standby ready for the day after.
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towny44
- Deputy Captain

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
I thought Raab had promised Rishi he would resign if the review found against him? It would have been a bit churlish of Rishi to pre-empt this by sacking him, surely.Gill W wrote: 21 Apr 2023, 16:23A typically graceless resignation letter from Raab, and it's made Sunak look weak for not sacking him yesterdaypaultheagle wrote: 21 Apr 2023, 14:05Dominic Raab the bully has resigned. Sunak had appointed Oliver Dowden as his new deputy.
The merry-go-round of this government keeps turning.
John
Trainee Pensioner since 2000
Trainee Pensioner since 2000
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Onelife
- Captain

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
Due process had to be seen to be done….the problem now is that they have a vindictive MP with a lot of influence who has scores to settle….What a fantastic Political system we have…towny44 wrote: 21 Apr 2023, 23:08I thought Raab had promised Rishi he would resign if the review found against him? It would have been a bit churlish of Rishi to pre-empt this by sacking him, surely.Gill W wrote: 21 Apr 2023, 16:23A typically graceless resignation letter from Raab, and it's made Sunak look weak for not sacking him yesterdaypaultheagle wrote: 21 Apr 2023, 14:05Dominic Raab the bully has resigned. Sunak had appointed Oliver Dowden as his new deputy.
The merry-go-round of this government keeps turning.
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david63
- Site Admin

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
And what would be your alternative?
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screwy
- Senior First Officer

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Mervyn and Trish
- Commodore

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
The more I read about this the more it stinks. It now emerges some of the complaints about Raab were made by people who had never worked for him, in some cases never even met him!
I repeat there is no excuse for bullying. But there is no excuse for a politically motivated witch hunt either.
What is clear is they need a system for those working with ministers to raise concerns to be properly dealt with without it escalating to this level. And a system for dealing with Civil Servants failing to do their jobs properly.
I repeat there is no excuse for bullying. But there is no excuse for a politically motivated witch hunt either.
What is clear is they need a system for those working with ministers to raise concerns to be properly dealt with without it escalating to this level. And a system for dealing with Civil Servants failing to do their jobs properly.
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Onelife
- Captain

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
Hi David, you are the second person seeking my opinion in less than two days…I’m feeling rather flattered
Well, the first thing I would suggest to achieve an alternative would be the thing that is stopping it…Move towards getting rid of the Monarchy as there can be no alternatives until this has been achieved.
During this time of transition, a committee of our most learned academics could work towards creating a new political system that is void of the sleaze and corruption that has been allowed to infect our present political system {whilst accepting all political system are suseptable to human failings)
So, you ask what alternative…Well, always being one who is willing to compromise I would look towards a Representative Democracy with the proviso that all prospective candidates are drawn from those who have been educated to a standard of political competence…not like what we have now.
I do have another alternative but as they will never be allowed the political/media platform to push forward an alternative, there has to be a compromise, one which I would be willing to make for the country I love.
Last edited by Onelife on 22 Apr 2023, 12:30, edited 1 time in total.
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david63
- Site Admin

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
That is an irrelevance. Other than ceremonial the Monarchy has no involvement in government.Onelife wrote: 22 Apr 2023, 12:19Well, the first thing I would suggest to achieve an alternative would be the thing that is stopping it…Move towards getting rid of the Monarchy as there can be no alternatives until this has been achieved.
That is impossible to achieve as there is no political system in the world that is devoid of sleaze and corruption to a lesser or greater extent. Whilst our system is not perfect in this respect it is better than many.Onelife wrote: 22 Apr 2023, 12:19a committee of our most learned academics could work towards creating a new political system that is void of the sleaze and corruption that has been allowed to infect our present political system
Which would inevitably result in coalition governments which have been shown to be the least effective style of government (look at Germany and Israel as two prime examples)
Whilst a good idea in theory, and one I would not disagree with, it would never be accepted and would in fact be a backward step as it would become elitist.Onelife wrote: 22 Apr 2023, 12:19the proviso that all prospective candidates are drawn from those who have been educated to a standard of political competence
Do you have a plan B?
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towny44
- Deputy Captain

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Re: Current Affairs
I dont think new convalescent hospitals is the way to go, clearly there needs to be more money put into the care sector so that wages can be improved leading to an increase in carer numbers. However I dont want to see the money leading to increased dividends in the private sector, but equally I worry about increasing the public sector which did not perform well in the past.screwy wrote: 02 Jan 2023, 10:04We need to bring back the Convelecence hospitals. Here in our town we had a NHS hospital building for mental health patients, it has been replaced by a new state of the art centre on an older hospital site, the empty one is now being left to rot. Disgraceful.
No doubt they’ll do it up and shove bloody migrants in it.
John
Trainee Pensioner since 2000
Trainee Pensioner since 2000
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Manoverboard
- Ex Team Member
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Re: Current Affairs 2023
The NHS and all it's services need to privatised to ensure greater accountability at all levels, especially tighter financial controls regarding staff and procurement.
Keep smiling, it's good for your well being
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towny44
- Deputy Captain

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Re: Current Affairs 2023
Private sector firms do generally operate more efficiently than the public sector, but I don't really think it would work for the health sector, and it would lead to an uproar from the left wing parties which I doubt any Tory PM would be able to survive.Manoverboard wrote: 22 Apr 2023, 13:36The NHS and all it's services need to privatised to ensure greater accountability at all levels, especially tighter financial controls regarding staff and procurement.
John
Trainee Pensioner since 2000
Trainee Pensioner since 2000
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Manoverboard
- Ex Team Member
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Re: Current Affairs 2023
Our health services should not be controlled by any political party nor by the Trade Unions, legislation would obviously need to be passed to curb their influence in such a radical overhaul.towny44 wrote: 22 Apr 2023, 14:13Private sector firms do generally operate more efficiently than the public sector, but I don't really think it would work for the health sector, and it would lead to an uproar from the left wing parties which I doubt any Tory PM would be able to survive.Manoverboard wrote: 22 Apr 2023, 13:36The NHS and all it's services need to privatised to ensure greater accountability at all levels, especially tighter financial controls regarding staff and procurement.
Keep smiling, it's good for your well being