20 mph

[Onelife]

I’ve just reading that 380,000+ have thus far signed a petition to reverse the new 20mph rule…can’t think why myself. Perhaps a change in attitude is what is needed? I took a trip into Wales yesterday and encountered three enforceable 20 mph areas, all of which were well signed as to the new restrictions. I personally didn’t find it much of a hindrance observing the new rule, indeed I felt that this is a good move and would like to see it rolled out across the whole of the UK. If it saves lives and has the potential for less serious road accidents then I’m all for it.

My attitude is one of… if it takes me a couple of minutes extra, those two minutes could have saved me from being in an accident further along my journey, yes. It could work the other way but the other way doesn’t have the potential to lessen serious accidents within residential areas.

Stay calm, live longer.

[david63]

The majority of residential roads already have a 20mph limit (or at least round here they do). At many times of the day it is not possible because of traffic to travel at more than 20mph anyway on many roads.

The majority, if not all, road accidents are caused by bad driving and I am not convinced that reducing the speed limit will improve that behaviour - in fact I could see that it may possibly make it worse due to frustration.

From what I have read it appears that this is a political edict rather than a fact based decision.

Let's not be under any illusion - you stand as much chance of being killed or seriously injured if you are hit by a car travelling at 20mph, or even 10mph, as you are by a car travelling at 30mph.

As far as I am concerned the jury is still out on this.

[Jan Rosser]

I think you are correct about the “politics” of this situation David - Mark Drakeford is not very popular at the best of times - calls for his resignation are coming from everywhere!

Facebook is overrun with whingers complaining about their gears and brakes and using more petrol etc. they are not looking at the safety issues and these are the people signing the petitions - I’m being polite when I call them selfish and thoughtless

The 20 mph speed limit has been in force in streets surrounding schools for years and rightly so. I live on a steep hill and idiots drive well above the 30 mph - we have requested speed bumps/lower speed limit etc with no joy so the change to 20 suits me fine.

Some of the signs haven’t been updated yet causing some confusion but it’s only been a week for goodness sake!

[david63]

Mark Drakeford is not very popular at the best of times - calls for his resignation are coming from everywhere!

I thought he was standing down at the next election.

[Jan Rosser]

Mark Drakeford is not very popular at the best of times - calls for his resignation are coming from everywhere!

I thought he was standing down at the next election.

Yes he has also said he will stand down as First Minister before then but it can't be soon enough for some people - common sense is in short supply at the moment in Wales

[Onelife]

As you say David the jury is still out on this but from my very limited experience there is a distinguishable difference when driving in a 30-mph zone to that of a 20-mph zone…I may be wrong but driving between 30mph and 40 mph seems undisguisable whereas driving at 20mph you really do know you are going slow. I disagree with you about speed and sustained injury, I also disagree with you and Jan that this is political motivated (money making scheme).

[paultheagle]

In the distance a 20mph car can stop, a 30mph car will still be doing 24mph. A person is around five times more likely to be killed when hit by a vehicle travelling at around 30mph than they are from a vehicle travelling at 20mph.
(Google)

Driving at 20mph will save lives and it should be Nationwide.

[oldbluefox]

I have mixed feelings on this. From my own experience the slower you travel the more likely pedestrians are to walk out in front of you. Of course there are situations where 20mph should be the limit but if we are talking road safety there has to be responsibility placed on both the driver and the pedestrian.
We should also be considering the width of the road, street furniture and traffic calming measures which can be very effective in ensuring responsible drivers keep to the limit and keep pedestrians safe.
In major towns in Germany they had traffic lights set up as a 'Grüne Welle' (green wave) which meant if you went through a traffic light on green and kept to the speed limit the rest of the lights would also be green.
I'm not convinced that a blanket 20mph in every situation is appropriate but is good in the right circumstances.

[david63]

I also disagree with you and Jan that this is political motivated (money making scheme).

The issue here is that the Welsh Labour part do things because they can, not because it is in the best interests of the Welsh people.

In the distance a 20mph car can stop, a 30mph car will still be doing 24mph. A person is around five times more likely to be killed when hit by a vehicle travelling at around 30mph than they are from a vehicle travelling at 20mph.

That is all true but if somebody walks out in front of your car speed is immaterial, they will as a minimum be seriously injured. The other point which is totally overlooked is that modern cars have built in safety features to try and prevent accidents - for example if somebody walks in front of my car the car will slam the breaks on.

[oldbluefox]

This is where collective responsibility becomes overarching. Pedestrians should stick to pavements and take care in crossing the road and car drivers belong on the road driving at a speed adjusted to the road conditions.
Many small towns in Scotland already have 20mph speed limits which are reasonable due to the narrowness of the roads with shops either side. Where roads are much wider and lines of vision are clearer 20mph would be inappropriate. This conundrum is much more complex than a simple speed limit imposed from above.

[Onelife]

This is where collective responsibility becomes overarching. Pedestrians should stick to pavements and take care in crossing the road and car drivers belong on the road driving at a speed adjusted to the road conditions.
Many small towns in Scotland already have 20mph speed limits which are reasonable due to the narrowness of the roads with shops either side. Where roads are much wider and lines of vision are clearer 20mph would be inappropriate. This conundrum is much more complex than a simple speed limit imposed from above.

The problem is that in both instances…they don’t!

Statistics show that the most vulnerable groups are children under the age of 14 and old codgers like me in the over 65’s age bracket. It could be argued that both groups are more suseptable than those who fall in-between these groups, whether this is due to lack of awareness/distraction or plain foolhardiness in the younger age group or indecisiveness/hearing/ vision/ impaired physical health in the older age group they are more likely to the ones on pedestrian death statistics.
Factors such as silent battery powered vehicles, restricted vision in large heavy goods vehicles doesn’t make crossing the road a doddle today, therefore a 20mph speed restriction in residential streets/roads seems to be a sensible choice to me.

[oldbluefox]

Agree with you on residential streets, keep the traffic flowing on main roads

[Onelife]

Agree with you on residential streets, keep the traffic flowing on main roads

Our road through our village is so dangerous that all the residents carry a white cane round with them

[david63]

a 20mph speed restriction in residential streets/roads seems to be a sensible choice to me.

We have already got that.

What happened to the "Look right, look left, look right again before crossing a road" like wot we was teeched at skool

[Jan Rosser]

a 20mph speed restriction in residential streets/roads seems to be a sensible choice to me.

We have already got that.

What happened to the "Look right, look left, look right again before crossing a road" like wot we was teeched at skool

Do you know I still say those words in my head when I cross a road - old habits die hard

[Chalgrave4]

Proper enforcement of the current 30 mph limit would do the trick, too many drivers seem to think that 35 to 40 is fine.
Scrap the stupid idea that drivers need to be warned about speed cameras, if you are breaking the law you don't need to be warned you might be caught. Random checks without warning would perhaps slow some of the idiots down - or at least lose them their license.

[Kendhni]

As you say David the jury is still out on this but from my very limited experience there is a distinguishable difference when driving in a 30-mph zone to that of a 20-mph zone…I may be wrong but driving between 30mph and 40 mph seems undisguisable whereas driving at 20mph you really do know you are going slow. I disagree with you about speed and sustained injury, I also disagree with you and Jan that this is political motivated (money making scheme).

I read an article the other day that suggested, when travelling at 20mph drivers, pay less attention to the road and can almost go into a trance like state. If that is true then it could lead to more accidents, but less fatalities.

Personally I would prefer to see 20mph speed limits over the plethora of ramps that seem to be growing in our area ... they cause more pollution and damage to tyres.

[Onelife]

As you say David the jury is still out on this but from my very limited experience there is a distinguishable difference when driving in a 30-mph zone to that of a 20-mph zone…I may be wrong but driving between 30mph and 40 mph seems undisguisable whereas driving at 20mph you really do know you are going slow. I disagree with you about speed and sustained injury, I also disagree with you and Jan that this is political motivated (money making scheme).

I read an article the other day that suggested, when travelling at 20mph drivers, pay less attention to the road and can almost go into a trance like state. If that is true then it could lead to more accidents, but less fatalities.

Personally I would prefer to see 20mph speed limits over the plethora of ramps that seem to be growing in our area ... they cause more pollution and damage to tyres.

Most 20mph zones are rarely more than a few hundred yards long which probably takes less than a couple of minutes to drive through…if drivers are falling into a trance like state during this time they shouldn’t be on the road. Imo

I agree with you about speed ramps…they would do better using the tarmac to fill potholes.

I quite like the square styled speed warning signs which display your speed and give you a ‘THANK YOU’ for adhering to the speed restriction. They seem more affective than the signs which just flash up your speed.

[oldbluefox]

Average speed cameras seem to be most effective.

If councils are to slow traffic down they should be looking at traffic calming measures and road/pavement design. Maybe there would be fewer accidents if pedestrians only crossed on Pelican crossings and only then when the green man is showing. In Germany it was an offence punishable by a fine not to cross on a proper crossing when the lights say you can. And the Polizei enforced it. Roads for cars, pavements for people!!

[towny44]

As you say David the jury is still out on this but from my very limited experience there is a distinguishable difference when driving in a 30-mph zone to that of a 20-mph zone…I may be wrong but driving between 30mph and 40 mph seems undisguisable whereas driving at 20mph you really do know you are going slow. I disagree with you about speed and sustained injury, I also disagree with you and Jan that this is political motivated (money making scheme).

I agree with OL, 20mph is much less likely to cause serious injury than 30mph, also I cannot see how it can be money making, unless massive numbers ignore the limit, but even that is only likely to be short term, unless Welsh drivers are very wealthy.

[Jan Rosser]

I agree with OL, 20mph is much less likely to cause serious injury than 30mph, also I cannot see how it can be money making, unless massive numbers ignore the limit, but even that is only likely to be short term, unless Welsh drivers are very wealthy.
[/quote]

Can I just say that I am not in disagreement with the 20 mph speed limit (unlike the plumber doing a job at my house today - too slow for his Porsche - I’m not kidding !!!) and I just don’t know if it’s a money making exercise by the Welsh Assembly. Mark Drakeford is a very unpopular politician and people naively believe signing a petition will overturn the 20 mph limit and force him to resign.

[towny44]

I agree with OL, 20mph is much less likely to cause serious injury than 30mph, also I cannot see how it can be money making, unless massive numbers ignore the limit, but even that is only likely to be short term, unless Welsh drivers are very wealthy.

Can I just say that I am not in disagreement with the 20 mph speed limit (unlike the plumber doing a job at my house today - too slow for his Porsche - I’m not kidding !!!) and I just don’t know if it’s a money making exercise by the Welsh Assembly. Mark Drakeford is a very unpopular politician and people naively believe signing a petition will overturn the 20 mph limit and force him to resign.
[/quote]
However even though I agree it should reduce serious injuries, I rather hope it's not taken up across the board for England, but of course I would be happy and more willing to accept them applying a 20 mph speed limit on roads that have shown to have high accident rates, and of course where schools are located.

[Manoverboard]

The existing 30mph limits on many of Dorset's rural byways are already ignored by the idiots so changing it to 20mph will have no impact whatsoever. It'll doubtless work ok in towns if policed ... which it won't be of course.

For me it is simply political point scoring.

[barney]

Our main road which runs between Bideford and Barnstaple is a 'B' road.
However, the speed limit varies from 30 to 40 to national speed limit (60) applies.
I'd be quite happy to see a 30 zone all the way, but 20mph is taking the pee, to be honest.
If you have a powerful car, it's virtually impossible to drive at 20mph without staying in 2nd gear, which will not do your engine a lot of good and increase revs and thus pollution.

[CaroleF]

My village has a 20mph restriction which is obeyed by some but definitely not all. The main problem is that a new bypass was opened which unfortunately allowed some drivers to avoid the huge roundabout by taking a short cut through one end of the village by going down one village road, round a very small roundabout, most end up going over it, and then out on another village road, thus avoiding the massive roundabout with its traffic light controls. The people who live on the two roads are constantly complaining about the noise and speed of cars at all times of the day, particularly rush hour. In fact the house owners on one of the roads took matters into their own
hands and arranged so they parked cars on both sides of the road, no parking restrictions, so that only a single lane remained. There were some very frustrated motorists who found that their quick short cut was no longer short. However, they couldn't do this every day. I can't see any solution other than to put speed humps on both roads. One day there will be a serious accident because of the speed of the cars taking a short cut, maybe then someone will do something, a 20mph restriction has done nothing, in fact one of the roads is still 30mph as it's not classed as being inside the village.