Winter fuel payment

[Onelife]

If you believe Racheal Reeves is trying to straighten out the economy (I do) then this capitulation (U-turn) on the winter fuel payment undermines all she is trying to achieve. Raising the eligibility cap to £35k is a big mistake in my opinion and unnecessary for the vast majority who can get by without it. There were other options that could have been implemented for those who are struggling, she could have given the payment to those on pension credit or benefits and not to all those with a household income under £35k. ...this is an abuse of tax payers money. Imo.

For the amount she is giving to those who can well do without it, it would have been better spent on topping up pension credit and benefits for those who really need it.

My view is that the Labour party should have stuck this one out and not buckled to political opportunism, whingers and the media.

[david63]

None of what you are suggesting, which I am not necessarily disagreeing with, wins votes - it really is as simple as that.

Although I suspect that the damage has been done and reversing this decision will have little impact with the electorate, but will go some way to appease some members of the Labour Party.

[towny44]

I wonder how they will treat married couples if only one exceeds the £35000 threshold?

[Mervyn and Trish]

My understanding is they will both get their share but the one earning over £35k will pay theirs back in tax the following year.

And should they have u turned? The question is irrelevant to me. They shouldn't have adopted such a crass policy in the first place.

[Stephen]

I’ll take it thank you.
Anyone that doesn’t want theirs send it my way.

[oldbluefox]

What a massive own goal. Apart from the political damage it has caused by the time you account for the increase in numbers claiming pension credit, the cost of associated administration and the costs of changing the criteria again the amount saved is minimal.
Ed Milliband on TV this morning defending our Rachel.

[david63]

And despite Rachel saying that everything has to be paid for nobody knows where this money is coming from - another magic money tree? Another black hole?

[oldbluefox]

She says it was necessary. It's like picking up 10p in the street and claiming it will solve your cost of living increases.
It should have been left as it was considering those who got it and didn't need it are probably paying more than that in taxes either direct or indirect. If you don't want it there should be a mechanism to turn it down.
Now that will put the cat amongst the pigeons

[Jan Rosser]

She says it was necessary. It's like picking up 10p in the street and claiming it will solve your cost of living increases.
It should have been left as it was considering those who got it and didn't need it are probably paying more than that in taxes either direct or indirect. If you don't want it there should be a mechanism to turn it down.
Now that will put the cat amongst the pigeons

I’ve been on the Gov.Co.UK site to check how to turn down the payment which I’m not entitled to because I’m over the £35000 limit but which will be paid and then taxed next year. Makes more sense to me to stop payment so the taxing doesn’t have to be processed. Perhaps I’m being too sensible

[Stephen]

It does seem daft Jan that for certain people they give it in one hand and then take back with the other.

[oldbluefox]

I feel convinced it would have been cheaper in the long run to leave it as it was - easy to administer, no problems with means testing, no political backlash. Those in the higher tax brackets will be paying more in than they receive from their taxable income plus they are the more likely to be spending and thereby contributing via VAT. And there is always the option of donating it to charity or, as Jan says, the ability to turn down the winter fuel payment if they so wish.
Why make a simple situation complicated and upset everybody? These are supposed to be educated people with their heads screwed on!!! They couldn't make a bigger hash up.

[david63]

These are supposed to be educated people with their heads screwed on!!

That's the problem - whilst they are "supposed" to be educated, unfortunately many are not - in fact there is at least one in a senior position within the Labour Government who left school at 16 without any qualifications.

[oldbluefox]

That's the problem - whilst they are "supposed" to be educated, unfortunately many are not - in fact there is at least one in a senior position within the Labour Government who left school at 16 without any qualifications.

Can't think who that might be..............Surely not the gobby one!!!

[Onelife]

We in this country pride ourselves on upholding our democratic rights but I’m not so sure democracy should be allowing public opinion to sway a government into making political U-turns just because those who shout loudest feel hard done by. Our political system is being corrupted by an avalanche of “it’s our right, get what we can” activists who only see things through their perspective, while ignoring the bigger picture, a picture which erodes a governments ability to govern. This and previous governments have become the puppets of public opinion, pressure groups and a frenzied media who control the ballot box.

As I have said many times before our political system is broken and theses U-turns are doing nothing to rebuild it.

[towny44]

We in this country pride ourselves on upholding our democratic rights but I’m not so sure democracy should be allowing public opinion to sway a government into making political U-turns just because those who shout loudest feel hard done by. Our political system is being corrupted by an avalanche of “it’s our right, get what we can” activists who only see things through their perspective, while ignoring the bigger picture, a picture which erodes a governments ability to govern. This and previous governments have become the puppets of public opinion, pressure groups and a frenzied media who control the ballot box.

As I have said many times before our political system is broken and theses U-turns are doing nothing to rebuild it.

Our system may well have its faults but clearly most govts do have to take notice of how the general public are reacting to their policies, and tailor them to try and maintain the publics support. Unlike certain republics where you have autocratic presidents who alone make vital decisions and take no notice whatsoever of public opinion, unless it agrees with their policies.

[Onelife]

That's the problem - whilst they are "supposed" to be educated, unfortunately many are not - in fact there is at least one in a senior position within the Labour Government who left school at 16 without any qualifications.

Can't think who that might be..............Surely not the gobby one!!!

You've really got it in for me this week Foxy

[david63]

We in this country pride ourselves on upholding our democratic rights but I’m not so sure democracy should be allowing public opinion to sway a government

But isn't that what any government should - listen to the people?

MP's are only there as representatives of the people (yes I know may MPs think differently and it is "all about them") therefore any government that does not listen runs the risk of not being around much longer and with Reform waiting in the wings big changes (not necessarily for the better) are just around the corner.

[Onelife]

We in this country pride ourselves on upholding our democratic rights but I’m not so sure democracy should be allowing public opinion to sway a government

But isn't that what any government should - listen to the people?

MP's are only there as representatives of the people (yes I know may MPs think differently and it is "all about them") therefore any government that does not listen runs the risk of not being around much longer and with Reform waiting in the wings big changes (not necessarily for the better) are just around the corner.

The government is elected because the people think they will make the right decisions….only then to disagree with those decisions because it affects them.

[towny44]

We in this country pride ourselves on upholding our democratic rights but I’m not so sure democracy should be allowing public opinion to sway a government

But isn't that what any government should - listen to the people?

MP's are only there as representatives of the people (yes I know may MPs think differently and it is "all about them") therefore any government that does not listen runs the risk of not being around much longer and with Reform waiting in the wings big changes (not necessarily for the better) are just around the corner.

The government is elected because the people think they will make the right decisions….only then to disagree with those decisions because it affects them.

Well of course people will object when their pocket is hit by govt policies. So it's important that govts consider their policies very carefully before implementing them and ensure they can ride out any negative press and not have to make embarrassing U turns.

[david63]

The government is elected because the people think they will make the right decision

Not quite right. Every MP is elected based on what he/she stands for as outlined in their manifesto. The problem is that once elected they think that they can do as they please but unfortunately that falls down on two counts - the first being that they have to do as they are told and "toe the party line" and the second is to totally ignore the manifesto as it was only a fairy tale!

[Onelife]

But isn't that what any government should - listen to the people?

MP's are only there as representatives of the people (yes I know may MPs think differently and it is "all about them") therefore any government that does not listen runs the risk of not being around much longer and with Reform waiting in the wings big changes (not necessarily for the better) are just around the corner.

The government is elected because the people think they will make the right decisions….only then to disagree with those decisions because it affects them.

Well of course people will object when their pocket is hit by govt policies. So it's important that govts consider their policies very carefully before implementing them and ensure they can ride out any negative press and not have to make embarrassing U turns.

And that John is precisely why we remain on this stagnating political merry-go-round. People need to stop thinking short term gain and start thinking long term opportunities.

[david63]

People need to stop thinking short term gain and start thinking long term opportunities.

The problem with this current government is that it is short term loss with log term greater loss. None of their current plans are going to work out well.

And I wish Rachel from accounts would stop banging on about making things better for the working man - there are other groups in this country that need to be taken into consideration. It is the same old same Labour Party - you can't teach old dogs new tricks!

[Onelife]

Some dogs learn from their mistakes, which is more than can be said for the Conservatives who spent more time barking at each other.

[oldbluefox]

I don't see much difference between the two parties. I have no confidence that either will make life better in UK as they stand. It is no longer the country I grew up in.

[david63]

I don't see much difference between the two parties. I have no confidence that either will make life better in UK as they stand. It is no longer the country I grew up in.

But there is a lot of difference with Reform - for one thing they have an experienced advisor in Liz Truss