Baby Boomers: are they bleeding the welfare state and the co

[david63]

The point about State Pension is that it was (still is) something that most sensible people take into account when planning for their retirement - in some cases starting over 40 years ago.

Whilst there is an argument that people should make all of their own provisions for their retirement this is not something that can happen overnight as it will take years of forward planning for both the government(s) of the day and the recipients involved. The downside of any Government even proposing such a policy is that it is an outright vote loser so it will never happen.

As for bus passes and winter fuel allowances they are, relatively speaking, nothing more than a "drop in the ocean" and the obvious answer would be to include them in with the state pension which would then mean that they would become taxable which would mean that those who paid tax would return a proportion to the Exchequer whilst those on low income would, in all probability, not.

[Quizzical Bob]

Far too sensible David. The main point about means-testing is that it often costs more to implement than it saves. Including these modest 'extras' in the basic pension does not grab the same headlines.

[Dark Knight]

£110 billion a year from a welfare budget of 200 million , is unsustainable in the short to medium term
so vote loser or not, someone will have to curtail the lavish spending on pensions and stop this benifit being handed out to all and sundry, it should only be given to those who need it to survive, not be given for people to spend on luxuries they do not need
Alternatively deduct the state pension from the BB's private income, as tax, as it is obvious many of them see it as perk to top up their income from elsewhere

[Onelife]

I don’t think there is any doubt that the majority of so called “baby boomers” have enjoyed better opportunities than what are now available to this generation of workers. That isn’t to say they are not entitled to reap the benefits of the pension options that were available to them at the time. The problem being that the pension system in place “then” was based on the premise that many wouldn’t reach pensionable age therefore the pension system would be able to honour its obligations to those who did.

Foresight is a wonderful thing; unfortunately Governments don’t have the capacity to look much further than the next election so it’s no surprise we now find our state pension system unable meet the demands of those entitled to it. We now find ourselves in a situation where the Government has little option but to move the goal posts in an attempt to make the dwindling pot go further.... a reality that we’ll all need to get used to.

As far as state pensions are concerned...everyone who pays in has the right to take out...that’s how it works... whether they need it or not.

I don’t believe the same principles should apply where benefits are concerned...it seems to me that we’ve lost all social conscience; this is mostly the result of inept governments who rob the poor and pander to the better off ...We and this “Crap” Government need to get our heads around the fact that benefits should be there as a safety net and not as a top up for those who can well afford to do without them.

Regards

OL

[Dark Knight]

Captain Squeaky

I think I love you

[david63]

It is not a "perk" nor is it a "benefit" to top anything up - it is part of what I, and many others, have planned for.

If, when I was working, there was no such thing as a state pension then I would have been making alternative arrangements for my retirement.

If you feel so strongly about the State Pension then I would suggest that you make your financial arrangements for your future without factoring in the State Pension and then at the appropriate time you do not claim your State Pension (which is your right) - unless you are already doing so.

[Quizzical Bob]

£110 billion a year from a welfare budget of 200 million , is unsustainable in the short to medium term
so vote loser or not, someone will have to curtail the lavish spending on pensions and stop this benifit being handed out to all and sundry, it should only be given to those who need it to survive, not be given for people to spend on luxuries they do not need
Alternatively deduct the state pension from the BB's private income, as tax, as it is obvious many of them see it as perk to top up their income from elsewhere

We've had this discussion before. Follow this plan and nobody would ever save for a private pension, there would be widespread grey-haired riots, and people like you would be first up against the wall and shot. the government has spent decades trying to get everybody to put aside something for their old age and you want to take all that away at a stroke?

[Dark Knight]

Smurfy
pensions are part of the welfare budget, which by its very nature is for the distribution of benefits to people who need them
just because people don't agree with the definition doesn't change the fact that the government and financial bodies class it as a benefit, which can be modified, removed or ammended as they see fit


sorry if it burts all your bubbles.....the truth is harsh sometimes

QB
I think you may find, that the government is pushing the workplace pension very hard to stop this profligate spending on pensions, wake up and admit , your generation has drqained the econmoy almost till breaking pint and still they bleat about hardship and rights...rose tinted greed

[Onelife]

What are you saying David...do you honestly think it’s fair that someone living in a 5 bedroom detached house can claim winter fuel allowance then bugger off to Spain for two weeks to top up their sun tan?

Do you think it fair that a joint income family can earn 98K yet still get child allowance??

And yes it is a perk because benefits such as winter fuel allowances and bus passes and numerous other top ups have been introduced after you started saving for your retirement.

Regards

Keith

[david63]

What are you saying David...do you honestly think it’s fair that someone living in a 5 bedroom detached house can claim winter fuel allowance then bug*er off to Spain for two weeks to top up their sun tan?

If you had to claim winter fuel allowance then I would agree with you but under the current system it is paid automatically.

Do you think it fair that a joint income family can earn 98K yet still get child allowance??

No

And yes it is a perk because benefits such as winter fuel allowances and bus passes and numerous other top ups have been introduced after you started saving for your retirement.

As I said before - include them in with the State Pension and then they become taxable. This is another case of "be careful of what you ask for". To start off with these so called "perks" are a very minute part of the problem and if you want to start means testing for them then you are going to generate a much larger bill than the current cost of them - and that is before you pay them out.

[Quizzical Bob]

QB
I think you may find, that the government is pushing the workplace pension very hard to stop this profligate spending on pensions, wake up and admit , your generation has drqained the econmoy almost till breaking pint and still they bleat about hardship and rights...rose tinted greed

'My' generation created this economy, it certainly isn't draining it. That has been managed by the government over the last 15 years or so.

[Dark Knight]

err that would be the governments we all keep voting for would it, it the same when people harp on about the 70's and how bad they were, except they all forget , your generation and the one before voted in the weak govenments, and either were part of the unions that ripped the country apart or supported their stance and now you whine about the 70's
and its no different with the 80'S and 90's, the country was crying out for a strong leader along came Maggie and destryoed the unions that a decade before had held the country to ransom and then guess what, she was stabbed in the back by an ungrateful country that begged for her to save it a few years before
its a looped record with BB's ,they wanted it all , got it all and are to selfish to admit to being greedy and to self absorbed to even thionkg about giving some of it back, even after they admit they don't need it

you are painting yourself into a corner

[Quizzical Bob]

I certainly didn't vote for the clowns that have ruined the British economy, and it's pension system with it.

[Dark Knight]

QB
Funny, nobody will admit to voting for the "clowns" but they keep getting elected and then all folk do is moan about them.....strange that

[Quizzical Bob]

QB
Funny, nobody will admit to voting for the "clowns" but they keep getting elected and then all folk do is moan about them.....strange that

They get elected because they have created a client electorate that depends on them for their sustenance.

[Dark Knight]

would that be those recieving copious amounts of benefits every week....like BB's?

[Quizzical Bob]

would that be those recieving copious amounts of benefits every week....like BB's?

They're not benefits, they have already been paid for.

[paultheeagle]

I ain't had a pay rise for 4 years now..My money ain't gone up but my expenditures has.....Am I right in thinking that State Pension is inflation proof.

On the other hand 1 in 6 pensioners are living in poverty...There is something wrong somewhere.

[david63]

Am I right in thinking that State Pension is inflation proof.

Sorry to burst you bubble Paul but the State Pension is anything but inflation proof. The State Pension is usually increased each year, but that is not a given, by any amount that the Government of the day decide is appropriate (by that read - vote winning). Having said that, for the last few years it has risen by at least the rate of inflation at the time of the Budget.

[Dark Knight]

is it also the case that it is to set at a flat rate of £140 per week in the near future per person
that is ££7280 per person , nice benefit for a couple of £14560

that will payr plenty of luxuries on top of any private pension income as well

maybe I have got this all wrong and I too should jump on the benefits gravy train, that plus our private pensions is going to keep us quite nicely thank you

if you cant beat em join em

[gfwgfw]

Just bought a brand new Bentley

Number plate

KEV1ZZZ

[Admiral of the Humber]

Oh Graham,

You are a naughty chap....

Your pal the Sceptre aka the bloke who will become a relative neighbour of the Kevster in 4 days!!!!

[gfwgfw]

Rob

And may the good gods be with you

Nice to see you posting again- you have been missed

Graham

[Dark Knight]

gfw
couldn't you fit "Bumpkin" on the plate....shame


cue archers theme tune....a simple tale of simple country folk

dum dee dum de dum dee dum.....etc

[towny44]

is it also the case that it is to set at a flat rate of £140 per week in the near future per person
that is ££7280 per person , nice benefit for a couple of £14560

that will payr plenty of luxuries on top of any private pension income as well

maybe I have got this all wrong and I too should jump on the benefits gravy train, that plus our private pensions is going to keep us quite nicely thank you

if you cant beat em join em

The proposed £140 pw pension will only apply to new pensioners from the date of implementation, which is not yet finalised, existing pensioners will continue to receive the current pension.
DK I am a little surprised at your attitude to pension benefits, from your other political comments I had you pegged as a right winger, so why on pensions are you so socialist, ie. if everyone cannot have large private pensions as well as the state benefit, then lets reduce the well off benefits to level the playing field.
That's the sort of action that led to the scrapping of the best education system there ever has been for bright kids from poor backgrounds, you guessed right "Grammar Schools", as well as so many other minor social adjustments done for the same reasons over my lifetime.
Shame on if you really are a Tory supporter.