Baby Boomers: are they bleeding the welfare state and the co

[Dark Knight]

Towny

I don't hold political beliefs as such or support any party
my issue with pensions ,as with any benefit, is that it is now so ingrained into the country's welfare system , it is paid to everyone, regardless of if they actually need it and because of this the cost is way beyond what is sustainable or realistic
Pensions should be paid , like any benefit, to the ones who need it most, not people with private pensions and healthy incomes, from other sources than the government
why should pension age people in half million pound houses get a benefit from the state? when it should be the poorest in society that need the help
the new workplace pension will go some way to reducing the overall bill, it it is 20 years too late and when the rest of the country is feeling the squeeze, why should pensioners be exempt from the cuts?

[Quizzical Bob]

Towny

I don't hold political beliefs as such or support any party
my issue with pensions ,as with any benefit, is that it is now so ingrained into the country's welfare system , it is paid to everyone, regardless of if they actually need it and because of this the cost is way beyond what is sustainable or realistic
Pensions should be paid , like any benefit, to the ones who need it most, not people with private pensions and healthy incomes, from other sources than the government
why should pension age people in half million pound houses get a benefit from the state? when it should be the poorest in society that need the help
the new workplace pension will go some way to reducing the overall bill, it it is 20 years too late and when the rest of the country is feeling the squeeze, why should pensioners be exempt from the cuts?

There haven't actually been any cuts.

[Dark Knight]

QB
let me rephrase them
why are pensioners getting year on year increases when he rest of the country are finding their wages falling year on year
they should be set at a level and then frozen and means tested so the ones who need the money get it and the ones who don't need it don't get it

[towny44]

Towny

I don't hold political beliefs as such or support any party
my issue with pensions ,as with any benefit, is that it is now so ingrained into the country's welfare system , it is paid to everyone, regardless of if they actually need it and because of this the cost is way beyond what is sustainable or realistic
Pensions should be paid , like any benefit, to the ones who need it most, not people with private pensions and healthy incomes, from other sources than the government
why should pension age people in half million pound houses get a benefit from the state? when it should be the poorest in society that need the help
the new workplace pension will go some way to reducing the overall bill, it it is 20 years too late and when the rest of the country is feeling the squeeze, why should pensioners be exempt from the cuts?

DK, you may not support any one party but on this issue you hold very socialist views.
OAP's in half million pound houses will be so few in number that withdrawing the pension benefits from them would hardly solve the problem as you see it, other than as a sop to the working class Labour voters.
And the very wealthiest pensioners will currently be contributing far more than the average in their taxes, and why do most other countries in Europe pay out state pension to everyone, including some very enlightened socialist govts.
There may be a case for clawing back some peripheral benefits, like winter fuel allowance, by adjusting high earners tax codes , but nothing else.

[Quizzical Bob]

QB
let me rephrase them
why are pensioners getting year on year increases when he rest of the country are finding their wages falling year on year
they should be set at a level and then frozen and means tested so the ones who need the money get it and the ones who don't need it don't get it

For future pensioners maybe, those who retire 50 years from now. Then they will have time to adjust their financial planning accordingly.

Oh, and benefits have been increased ahead of wages.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... wages.html
(Your favourite paper )

Means testing is the devil's spawn. Just calculate the marginal tax rate when pensions are reduced because the poor hard-working individual stacks a few shelves at Tesco.

[Dark Knight]

as long as it's in the future when the BB generation have bled the country and died eh
I pity your grandchildren, who will bear the brunt of their grandparents greed, low wages, crippling debts houses they can't afford and no state pension
but why worry, as long as the BB's are happy eh andf they are protected and fed state handouts till they die, after all why worry about the mess they leave behind, when they can milk the state and live the easy life

[Dancing Queen]

DK you do seem to have very strong views on this, are you or your wife involved with the department responsible for benefits/pensions etc.

[Dancing Queen]

Just bought a brand new Bentley

Number plate

KEV1ZZZ

Disgraceful gfw, not only should you not be able to afford "that" car as a pensioner but a private plate as well ... what is the world coming to

[Dark Knight]

not at all DQ
I find it is the worse type of hypocrisy that people who quite obviously don't need a state handout, are the most vocal about refusing to either acknowledge the problem and are the ones who cry the loudest when their cozy lifestyle comes under scrutiny

Granted a cruise forum is hardly the place to find people who actually need a state benefit, so perhaps I will just jump on the gravy train and sod the next generation, seems to be the general opinion on here

[Dancing Queen]

There are probably some that don't "need" their pension but I do think you are wrong to assume people on this forum don't, ok many of us made provision for our retirement but that doesn't mean we are wealthy just that we had the common sense to ensure we had a "bit more" to make life easier and not be even more of a burden on the state

[ChesterfieldJohn]

I agree with Dark Knight about the people on here not needing the state pension, I heard somewhere today that 20% of pensioners earn more than 40000 a year, I would hazard a guess that the percentage on here is at least that.

I am not in that by the way

I must admit that if I was I would probably keep the pension nd save it for my children to have when I wave good bye to this world

John

[Romig1]

I think it naive to expect baby boomers who don't need their pension to give it up while they see such waste elsewhere in the benefits system. Surely it will be seen as giving it to those undeserving, well publicised cases we so often see in the Daily Mail?

[ChesterfieldJohn]

I think it naive to expect baby boomers who don't need their pension to give it up while they see such waste elsewhere in the benefits system. Surely it will be seen as giving it to those undeserving, well publicised cases we so often see in the Daily Mail?

Or to the friends of the government who avoid or don't pay tax, or the ultra rich who have had a tax cut.

John

[Mo2013]

Gordon Bennett - give me strength - the state pension is NOT a handout but something which has been paid into the whole of a person's working life - to be drawn upon retirement. When you pay into anything you draw on it not because you need it to live but because you've paid into it. What a silly pointless argument this is.

[oldbluefox]

This document from the Institute for Fiscal Studies makes interesting reading and puts pension entitlements into context:

The history of state pensions in the UK

[Silver_Shiney]

Am I right in thinking that State Pension is inflation proof.

Sorry to burst you bubble Paul but the State Pension is anything but inflation proof. The State Pension is usually increased each year, but that is not a given, by any amount that the Government of the day decide is appropriate (by that read - vote winning). Having said that, for the last few years it has risen by at least the rate of inflation at the time of the Budget.

Dunno about the State pension, but my RAF pension has gone from RPI increases to CPI(?) increases, which is lower.

[Silver_Shiney]

i think it was QB who pointed out you needed a £700K pension pot to get £35K back?
aplogoies if it was someone else

Based on purchase at age 65, good health, no widow's pension, no guarantee period, a £700k pot would buy an annuity of £49,484 from Canada Life. Prudential would give £31.825

That seems high, SS. All the figures that I see in the Sunday supplements are much lower.

Took me ages to find your response, QB....

While I was at the office today, I Googled annuity purchase quotes, so now I'm at home I don't know what site it was, but those were the figures as at lunchtime today.. There are very many factors that will affect a pension: health, guarantee period, widow's pension etc. I do not know what, if any, of these, the supplements you saw factored in. Annuity rates change on an almost daily basis.

[Silver_Shiney]

QB - found it, it's http://www.find.co.uk/pensions/annuitie ... calculator

[Kendhni]

I think it naive to expect baby boomers who don't need their pension to give it up while they see such waste elsewhere in the benefits system. Surely it will be seen as giving it to those undeserving, well publicised cases we so often see in the Daily Mail?

Well said Rob .. and not just the Daily Mail ... every week our local paper carries many stories about people in court who have been abusing the welfare system ... and yet some still choose to believe it is only a small minority.

It is actually not the state pension that is the major issue, it is the non-state element when people have not contributed enough to justify the pensions they were promised and now received. Maybe it is time that the government looked at that element and adjusted the amount paid based on actual contribution. That would produce a fairer outcome.

[towny44]

I think it naive to expect baby boomers who don't need their pension to give it up while they see such waste elsewhere in the benefits system. Surely it will be seen as giving it to those undeserving, well publicised cases we so often see in the Daily Mail?

Well said Rob .. and not just the Daily Mail ... every week our local paper carries many stories about people in court who have been abusing the welfare system ... and yet some still choose to believe it is only a small minority.

It is actually not the state pension that is the major issue, it is the non-state element when people have not contributed enough to justify the pensions they were promised and now received. Maybe it is time that the government looked at that element and adjusted the amount paid based on actual contribution. That would produce a fairer outcome.

That's a bit harsh Ken, if they were to apply your logic to my private sector company pension I suspect mine would virually disappear. The majority of the contributions came from my employer, and if the pot I ended up with had been used to buy an annuity it would have been significantly less, even 13 years ago. However it is not a drain on the public purse, unless my company goes bust, so that's something DK cannot carp about.

[Quizzical Bob]

QB - found it, it's http://www.find.co.uk/pensions/annuitie ... calculator

Thanks SS. I would suspect a flaw in there somewhere. Canada Life is listed twice at significantly different rates. Most providers seem to offer a best rate of just over %5.

[Silver_Shiney]

I think it naive to expect baby boomers who don't need their pension to give it up while they see such waste elsewhere in the benefits system. Surely it will be seen as giving it to those undeserving, well publicised cases we so often see in the Daily Mail?

Well said Rob .. and not just the Daily Mail ... every week our local paper carries many stories about people in court who have been abusing the welfare system ... and yet some still choose to believe it is only a small minority.

It is actually not the state pension that is the major issue, it is the non-state element when people have not contributed enough to justify the pensions they were promised and now received. Maybe it is time that the government looked at that element and adjusted the amount paid based on actual contribution. That would produce a fairer outcome.

That's a bit harsh Ken, if they were to apply your logic to my private sector company pension I suspect mine would virually disappear. The majority of the contributions came from my employer, and if the pot I ended up with had been used to buy an annuity it would have been significantly less, even 13 years ago. However it is not a drain on the public purse, unless my company goes bust, so that's something DK cannot carp about.

The non-state element is invested in different funds. The value of your holding will depend on the performance of those funds. That is out of the government's control. Active management of the pension policy is essential, to move between funds during the life of the policy.

[Silver_Shiney]

QB - found it, it's http://www.find.co.uk/pensions/annuitie ... calculator

Thanks SS. I would suspect a flaw in there somewhere. Canada Life is listed twice at significantly different rates. Most providers seem to offer a best rate of just over %5.

Hadn't noticed that, QB. Even if we take that first Canada Life quote out of the equation, there is still a large difference between Aviva and Prudential. The important thing, though, is to shop around when buying your annuity.

[Quizzical Bob]

Absolutely right SS. On your other point about the value of your holdings, the actual total depends on the fund's performance but the annuity rate that you receive has been drastically reduced since the introduction of Quantative Easing, or printing money as most of us know it. If it makes DK any happier, this has also resulted in effective negative interest rates and has stolen billions from any savings that the elderly might have managed to put aside.

[Gill W]

I always understood that baby boomers were born in the period from just after the war to about 1960.

My husband was born in 1951, and I was one of the last baby boomers born in 1960.

I don't know about bleeding the state dry - but as yet neither of us have had a penny from the state, throughout our entire working lives.

We've paid our taxes and NI, and part of our planning for retirement includes our state pension which we've made contributions for since leaving school.

I don't see my state pension (when I eventually get it at age 66) as some sort of cash cow that I don't really need. It's part of the plans that I've made for many years, and will be needed, to supplement my private pension, which will be less than originally planned for due to redundancy.

Responsible people spend a lifetime on their retirement planning, and that planning includes their state pension. It would be wrong to whip away the state pension for a generation of people, just because a few people only a couple of years younger than me have got an axe to grind about it.