New cap on benefits

[Boris+]

No, I am not joking about growing veg and fruit. If someone is not working (this is nothing to do with war widows, disabled people etc) and if they are in accommodation which has a garden, then they can grow veg and fruit - fresh produce and money saving and exercise all in one package. Nothing wrong with that, so yes I am serious.

On a cruise a while ago we were chatting with a couple - the man was a Magistrate. He said that he made a point of setting conditions that anyone who was unemployed and claiming benefits etc (not disabled etc), if they had to report at a set time to a Police Station then this Magistrate habitually set the reporting time at an early in the morning time, to ensure that the person in question got out of bed early on a regular basis.

We were discussing this with some friends, and they said if the guilty person had to get out of bed early why couldn't they attend some good basic cookery/gardening lessons and also chuck in a bit of community work whist they were about it.

By all means grow fruit and veg, and also then take it one step further to cookery - money saving, exercise etc - win win methinks.

Em

[ChesterfieldJohn]

Em, you said.
'For instance, I still see people who could easily be described as lay abouts and scroungers (nothing to do with war widows, disabled people etc) getting a taxi to and from a supermarket when they live nearer than I do - they are younger, fitter and could easily walk the short distance.'

How would you describe a layabout and scrounger please?
How do you know that they are are layabouts and scroungers? How do you know that they dont work?

Thanks John

[Dark Knight]

Em
I really do wonder what world you live in
cookery and gardening lessons??? what next knitting and sewing so they can make their own clothes

[Mervyn and Trish]

Great idea Battie!

[The Monocled Mutineer]

In defence of Em I would suggest he/she lives on the planet Self-Reliance & Self-Respect and suggestions such as scratch cooking, growing your own as well as helping the £s and Pennies go further, will give health benefits (diet and exercise) and set a good example to children.

Derek Kane

[Manoverboard]

Not easy to grow veg in a high rise but there are, were, a number of schemes where land was allocated and utilised for exactly that purpose. Getting some of them moving is the first step and their kids, by the way, absolutely loved doing it. For some it also lead to them learning how to cook healthy food ... did it feature on a Jamie Oliver type programme ?

Proper jobs can no longer be invented of course but there's plenty of Community work that could, indeed should, be done. Part time work should also be encouraged but the benefits they receive should then be reduced to top up their part time wage to the full time equivelent rather than getting both. Earnings above and beyond that, ie a second part time time job or longer hours than ' x ', should be permitted and not be penalised in any way at all.

There will obviously be people who through no fault of their own will be unable to do very much at all, if anything ... fine, but there are plenty of others who can and as far as I am concerned they should all do something useful else get a reduction in their State benefits.

[Boris+]

Hi DK,

Wow - I hadn't thought of that one, yes knitting and sewing etc by all means. Then also, what about advanced woodturning for the chaps so that they can make the knitting needles?

Em

[Dark Knight]

EM
why not go the whole hog and get them building their own huses, making their own furniture and growing their own food?
that way they would not cost anyone a penny and we could all say what a relief not to have them on the books


oh wait.......... we did that once they were called peasants and slaves

[Boris+]

Oh DK - no, they weren't peasants and slaves, they were quite simply hippies.

I can remember having people 'camped' on woodland, and they were quiet and pleasant people. Ok, they may have had a bit of wacky backy, or perhaps even some home-brewed hooch. But they were tidy, almost quiet, and their home brewing kit never exploded or anything. They kept their abodes tidy, and from what I can recall they were quite waterproof and warm.

They couldn't be seen from the road, only from right inside the woodland.

They didn't really cause much harm, and they did craft stuff and made their money by selling stuff in the local market and also by doing gardening for people.

Em

[Dark Knight]

they sound more like pixies and elves

[sumdumbloke]

They kept their abodes tidy, and from what I can recall they were quite waterproof and warm.
Em

OK, I can just about fathom how you found out these people were warm, but how did you demonstrate that they were waterproof?

[Dark Knight]

by throwning the night soil on them from the turret windows

how else?

[sumdumbloke]

by throwning the night soil on them from the turret windows

how else?

Or sprinkling the magic dust.....

[Dark Knight]

Or eating the mushrooms more like

[Boris+]

I presumed that the abodes were waterproof as the inhabitants didn't look bedraggled and damp - just normal looking hippies really.

Em

[mavismumakrill]

I thoroughly agree with Em on the whole. If somebody can afford to smoke and drink and have big TV's. the latest gadgets and the latest hi tech mobile phones etc etc, they aren't hard up..... Having a luxury isn't a necessity. Although I am not sure I agree with the cap being the average of a working person's wage. That is still meaning that the out of work are getting much more than a lot of hard working people. If they want to make it more interesting and advantageous to get a job then the cap should be at the minimum wage, which some employers do stick to. (Not me!!). It is good to see those who have a pride in themselves by working for less money than benefits would pay but they get the satisfaction of being able to feed their family themselves. A lot of those on benefits who are not disabled or elderly etc, have cars, big TV's, regular new bikes for the kids (usually left outside in the back garden to ruin), then the next generation don't understand the concept of going out to work when you can stay at home watching Jeremy Kyle every day.... Plus most of them never learn to cook proper meals from scratch, do repairs on broken items or darn torn clothes. We used to do all these and didn't come to any harm. Why can't they do voluntary or community work or suchlike to be able to get the benefit if they say there are no jobs. I remember when the men were given a small benefit if they were out of work if they turned up with a shovel and spent the day shovelling snow in the Winter.

My opinion only, but it is a sore subject.

Mavis x

[david63]

One thing to be careful of, as I said in another topic today, is in assuming that those on benefits have bought their "luxury" goods out of their benefits as it is possible that they bought them when they were in employment before going onto benefits.

[GillD46]

One thing to be careful of, as I said in another topic today, is in assuming that those on benefits have bought their "luxury" goods out of their benefits as it is possible that they bought them when they were in employment before going onto benefits.

Or that their luxury goods were bought for them.

[Manoverboard]

One thing to be careful of, as I said in another topic today, is in assuming that those on benefits have bought their "luxury" goods out of their benefits as it is possible that they bought them when they were in employment before going onto benefits.

Or that their luxury goods were bought for them.

... or, in some cases, they came off the back of a lorry and were bought in their local.

[Silver_Shiney]

We should giving a hand-up, not a hand-out. Benefits should not be so high as to allow one silly female to go out and have breast-enlargement surgery ("It's MY money, I can do what I want with it" she wailed when cornered by the press).

[GillD46]

Our eldest daughter, aged 34, has severe mental health - and I do mean severe! She is never likely to be able to support herself. When she's well, she manages a couple of mornings supported employment per week for about £3 per morning, but she frequently has L O N G periods in hospital, sometimes for months at a time - and then her benefits are rightly cut. To think she must go through life with no luxuries ever is unfair, it isn't her fault she's ill, so we help her out - sometimes with cash injections but more often with goods.

Please don't assume all those that have expensive goods while on benefits have come by them illegally, or have squandered their benefit payments. I know Our daughter would give anything, anything at all, to be well.

[ChesterfieldJohn]

Our eldest daughter, aged 34, has severe mental health - and I do mean severe! She is never likely to be able to support herself. When she's well, she manages a couple of mornings supported employment per week for about £3 per morning, but she frequently has L O N G periods in hospital, sometimes for months at a time - and then her benefits are rightly cut. To think she must go through life with no luxuries ever is unfair, it isn't her fault she's ill, so we help her out - sometimes with cash injections but more often with goods.

Please don't assume all those that have expensive goods while on benefits have come by them illegally, or have squandered their benefit payments. I know Our daughter would give anything, anything at all, to be well.

Deepest sympathy Gill, there are loads of people on benefits who need and in fact deserve them.

Hope all goes well for you and your daughter.

John

[Boris+]

Hi Gill,

Your daughter sounds like a very brave and determined woman; and she deserves all the help and support available.

Em

[david63]

Arguably, Gill, in your daughter's case they are not luxuries but necessities and there are very few, if any, who would deny her such things.

I think where the problem lies with those who are able to work and choose benefits as a lifestyle.

[Mo2013]

Our eldest daughter, aged 34, has severe mental health - and I do mean severe! She is never likely to be able to support herself. When she's well, she manages a couple of mornings supported employment per week for about £3 per morning, but she frequently has L O N G periods in hospital, sometimes for months at a time - and then her benefits are rightly cut. To think she must go through life with no luxuries ever is unfair, it isn't her fault she's ill, so we help her out - sometimes with cash injections but more often with goods.

Please don't assume all those that have expensive goods while on benefits have come by them illegally, or have squandered their benefit payments. I know Our daughter would give anything, anything at all, to be well.

I am sorry to read this Gill and your daughter is to be commended for doing what she can when she is well. Your story is exactly why people should not jump to conclusions and believe everything they read and see on the tv news about claimants.