Overseas Aid

[The Monocled Mutineer]

In view of Mr Bloom'ignorant rant about overseas aid and using Pakistan as an example:

From BBC News 7/8/13

"The annual accounts for the Department for International Development show that £203.1m was spent on Pakistan in 2012-13.

They state that the largest amount of the money of 31.4% was spent on education, benefiting nearly two million schoolchildren, 21.1% on tackling "poverty, hunger and vulnerability", 14.2% on humanitarian aid - such as flood assistance, 12.6% on reproductive, maternal and newborn health and the rest" [27.0%] "on global partnerships, governance and security (including elections), health and wealth creation."

Derek Kane

~~~

It is fair to construe that some overseas aid is passed to NGOs and charities to service the above laudable goals.

[Silver_Shiney]

There is, by definition, a need for all charities to raise money and in order to maximise that it is necessary to have a person with the ability to do it.

Not necessarily - it is written in our constitution that we never undertake any fundraising activity, nor do we ever advertise.

[haveabeer]

Not sure of the feasibility of this
Maybe a case that those that wish to donate to foreign aid could do so via there income then the money donated by the government our behalf could be put to use in the UK supporting our children
Judging by some of the stories I have read money towards refurbishing our schools
With the present system I don't have a say in who gets my the money or how much I would be willing to pay

[emjay45]

Delboy:

Your intervention, with the link, is a welcome "breath of fresh-air" in this otherwise "saloon bar" example of politics that most of the rest of the thread comprises.

The only "good thing" this "bongo bongo land" has done is to allow the very poorly affixed mask to slip on the typical UKIP representative and their repellant members and reveal their deeply unpleasant "little englander" politics.

A right own goal given that some of UKIP's premise is to replace some of our favourable trade links with our fellow EU nations with the developing world - many who I presume match typical UKIP activists' appellation of 'Bongo Bongo Land' - hardly winning friends and people - other than appealing to saloon bar bores, racists and the underclass.

I take great offence at your post. My post was to point out where I prefer to donate my money. It has nothing to do with the comment made by a UKIP politician. Only one person mentioned ‘bongo bongo land ‘ and apologised immediately. I am not a saloon bar bore, racist or one of the underclass.

[The Monocled Mutineer]

Emjay45:

Why? It wasn't directed at you, either explicitly or implicitly.

You voiced your viewpoint quite eloquently. Do not abuse those who may take a differing view.

[emjay45]

Your post seemed directed at all of us who posted before you. I don't believe I have abused anyone.

[The Monocled Mutineer]

Emjay45:

You quoted my reply in full and said you took offence at my post. I was not at all offensive about those who take a dissenting view about taxpayer funded overseas aid nor about those who prefer to donate directly to selected charities (home or abroad).

[Kendhni]

Forgive me if I am wrong, Ken, but I think you have misunderstood what I said. If we, as a nation, are giving overseas aid to other governments to supposedly help their people but, instead, those governments are spending the money on other things, be it arms, or luxuries for their cronies, that must stop. IMHO, we should, instead, be supporting those NGOs who are known to use the money at the very point of need.

I agree mostly with you SS, however even those NGO's may have to spend quite a bit of money on bribes to bring aid into a country or simply to move their vehicles around the countryside. it is a sad state of affairs that no matter what someone somewhere will be lining their pockets with money meant for better causes.

As far as this country goes, I think we should be providing affordable housing to those who really need it (NOT silly schoolgirls who get themselves pregnant as a career option).

Affordable housing is a good idea and, if we utilised available resources in this country more efficiently then it could be produced at reasonable cost without the need for charity. There are many people with various trades currently out of work that could be used to build such housing in return for a small uplift in their benefits ... arguable EVERYBODY on job seekers and others on benefits, should be made use of on such projects .. maybe just sweeping up floors or clearing rubbish or, more usefully, learning a skill in readiness for a pick up in the construction industry.

The health budget should be re-ordered so that the bulk goes to the front-line, not administration.

Again I would agree with you but that requires bigger changes. Firstly the public have to stop demanding every pet project they have should receive funding and be free at point of service. The NHS should provide a set of core services with subsidies, based on available funding, to the ancillary services.

I note that old adage that "for quality staff, you have to pay quality salaries" but perhaps the salary expectations of those managers is too high? If the going rate for a managerial position is so much, the application seems (to me) to accept that and try for a bit more on top. I'd love to see someone come along and say he or she would do the job for a far lower salary. I am not aware that it happens.

I generally take the approach that if you pay peanuts then don't be surprised if all you get is a monkey. It is not something I have much expertise in but I am wondering if it would be possible to run charities efficiently and effectively by committee? If so then surely there would be many retired managers, CEOs, etc. that may be willing to give some time for a nominal fee - the problem then would be lack of accountability.

[Mo2013]

I'm sure that if we lived in the conditions people and children have to live in overseas we would be hoping that the rest of the world would help us. Given the giving percentages quoted in the earlier link, are people really saying that they begrudge giving aid which amounts to x pence per person? A lot of people read knee-jerk headlines and make assumptions without really knowing all the facts. Where is the Christian ethos in resenting aid being sent to those in dire need?

[The Monocled Mutineer]

Mo2013:

Indeed, Mo. Indeed.

[haveabeer]

Where is the justice in family's in this country relying on food banks to survive where is the justice in our elderly needing to be cared for and there's no care for them, homeless people with know where to sleep.
Yes agreed that we all must do our best for those in need but that has to include our country as well

[Quizzical Bob]

Charity begins at home.

[Silver_Shiney]

[
I generally take the approach that if you pay peanuts then don't be surprised if all you get is a monkey. It is not something I have much expertise in but I am wondering if it would be possible to run charities efficiently and effectively by committee? If so then surely there would be many retired managers, CEOs, etc. that may be willing to give some time for a nominal fee - the problem then would be lack of accountability.

We no longer have a CEO, his responsibilities have been farmed out to various members of the board of trustees. Decisions are ratified by all the trustees, so there is considerable accountability, especially as there is One to whom they are ultimately accountable. We are, effectively, run by committee and we would think we are extremely efficient in how we operate.

As for your other points, I quite agree.

[Dark Knight]

can all this charity begin at my home please

I would love a new Bentley, a few dozen Omega watches and load of poncy food and wine, I would even share a bit of it with the less fortunate people next door who only have 2 cars, one of which is over 5 years old !!!

where is Bongo Bongo land?

[Quizzical Bob]

where is Bongo Bongo land?

I think it's somewhere in East Yorkshire.

[towny44]

if you are going to give that much money to overseas, FFS make sure it goes to the right people, not to some bloke with a lot of guns
it should only really go to bona fide charities, like Oxfam and cafod

So that their CEO's can get upwards of £165,000pa, I think not.

[Dark Knight]

so how then Towny, how would YOU ensure that all the overseas aid went to the right causes via the right people

and I assume from your comments you would do all this for nothing??

[towny44]

Delboy:

Your intervention, with the link, is a welcome "breath of fresh-air" in this otherwise "saloon bar" example of politics that most of the rest of the thread comprises.

The only "good thing" this "bongo bongo land" has done is to allow the very poorly affixed mask to slip on the typical UKIP representative and their repellant members and reveal their deeply unpleasant "little englander" politics.

A right own goal given that some of UKIP's premise is to replace some of our favourable trade links with our fellow EU nations with the developing world - many who I presume match typical UKIP activists' appellation of 'Bongo Bongo Land' - hardly winning friends and people - other than appealing to saloon bar bores, racists and the underclass.

MMO, only you could manage to link a thread on overseas aid to membership of your revered EU.

[towny44]

so how then Towny, how would YOU ensure that all the overseas aid went to the right causes via the right people

and I assume from your comments you would do all this for nothing??

Not sure DK but the harsh facts are that Oxfam feeding centres in places like Africa only help to increase the population so that come the next famine there are even larger numbers in need.
Some aid does go to improving irrigation and helping the local subsistence farmers to move out of poverty, but from what we see on the news nowhere near enough.
I know its heartless but if the only remedy is the continual use of these feeding centres then I see no end to the problem.

[Dark Knight]

somebody has to run the charity or whatever you want to call it and they need paying, charities are now a business nothing more and to get the top people you pay the salaries needed to attract them

yes, yes we can all harp on about "but its a charity" etc etc, but they cost money to run and that is just a fact of life, the governemt is no better and use overseas aid as bribes and to keep regimes in or out of power, under the guise of charity

every solution will be flawed

[towny44]

somebody has to run the charity or whatever you want to call it and they need paying, charities are now a business nothing more and to get the top people you pay the salaries needed to attract them

DK, is that not the same comment that the banks used to use to justify their high salaries and bonuses, and we all know what happened to the banks.
I am all for the free market but just maybe charity giving would be better off if nationalised, just as long as it is not administered by the overseas aid dept.

[Quizzical Bob]

somebody has to run the charity or whatever you want to call it and they need paying, charities are now a business nothing more and to get the top people you pay the salaries needed to attract them

yes, yes we can all harp on about "but its a charity" etc etc, but they cost money to run and that is just a fact of life, the governemt is no better and use overseas aid as bribes and to keep regimes in or out of power, under the guise of charity

every solution will be flawed

Should they be paid more than the Prime Minister?

[Mo2013]

I know of someone who stopped buying a poppy because he read how much salary the chief person was getting.

[ChesterfieldJohn]

somebody has to run the charity or whatever you want to call it and they need paying, charities are now a business nothing more and to get the top people you pay the salaries needed to attract them

yes, yes we can all harp on about "but its a charity" etc etc, but they cost money to run and that is just a fact of life, the governemt is no better and use overseas aid as bribes and to keep regimes in or out of power, under the guise of charity

every solution will be flawed

Should they be paid more than the Prime Minister?

Certainly this Prime Minister yes:)

I only give to local charities now, I will no longer give to overseas ones as I believe that we give them to much anyway.

We should look after people in this country first that need assistance.

John

[haveabeer]

I have never given to overseas charities
I support those that are needy in this country