Let us all pat ourselves on the back

[Kendhni]

Despite all our pretences at being environmentally friendly and all the lip service we pay to environmental issues and the great care-not-a-jot indifference we apply to the next generation we have managed to use up our share of the worlds resources in under 8 months this year ... story here

Each year the 'earth overshoot day' is getting earlier and earlier in the year ... yay, well done us!

Our legacy to the future ... "Humans now need the equivalent of 1.5 planets to sustain us, and by mid century it will have risen to two planets, the campaigners said." ... in comparison, when I was born we used less than two thirds of the available resources each year.

going into the future it is going to financially, as well as 'societally' and morally cost us a lot to buy the resources we need.

[Kendhni]

An interesting little map that shows the worst offenders global footprint

[towny44]

My view is that this is not such a bad thing, history shows that engineering and scientific advances are brought about by human need.

So as we start to suffer from this, perceived, overuse the sooner we are likely to see advances in clean renewable energy, better recycling of all scarce resources and increased yields in food production.

I don't think you or your great, great grandchildren will need to worry about shortages Ken, human ingenuity will prevail.

[jay-ell71]

How right you are Towny......

[emjay45]

I blame Frank

[oldbluefox]

I blame Frank

It was alright till Frank came.

[oldbluefox]

On a planet where resources must be finite are we not becoming over populated to the extent the planet cannot sustain us?

[Kendhni]

My view is that this is not such a bad thing, history shows that engineering and scientific advances are brought about by human need.

So as we start to suffer from this, perceived, overuse the sooner we are likely to see advances in clean renewable energy, better recycling of all scarce resources and increased yields in food production.

I don't think you or your great, great grandchildren will need to worry about shortages Ken, human ingenuity will prevail.

But that only works if we leave future generations some resources. Up until the 1970's this world provided far more resources than were being used ... now it can not provide required resources for the current population ... not to worry that the population is still expanding (more rapidly than ever). I disagree with your final analysis Towny, if we don't do something sooner rather than later then our legacy to future generations will be reduced living standards.

There are already (very real) fears that the monthly cost of energy will soon be more than monthly mortgage repayments.

[towny44]

Ken, I think you are viewing this far too 2 dimensionally, try at least to think 3 dimensionally, in the round so to speak, rather than too much like a flat earthist, and try to "chillax" like our esteemed PM.

[The Monocled Mutineer]

The population growth dynamic and the growth of consumption are extremely complex and obviously linked

Only a fool, an "ostrich" or a religious zealot is in denial that human population growth does not have an impact on our planet and environment, although the latter probably welcome this as hastening the "end of days" and fulfilment of their warped ideology

Estimates on world population historically show that from circa 40,000 years ago when Cro-magnon man (the first Homo sapiens) evolved from earlier hominids it took until 1804 for World Population to reach 1bn.

The curve then rises dramatically:

1927 - 2bn - in 123 years.
1950 - 3bn - in 23 years.
1974 - 4bn - in 14 years.
1987 - 5bn - in 13 years.
1999 - 6bn - in 12 years.
2011 - 7bn - in 12 years.

Because of the impact on improving living standards, secular education and improving health levels and the impact this has on family size, the most optimistic estimates today suggest that the world population will level out at 9bn in 2050 vs a current population level of 7.2bn coupled with the fact that expectancy of life has continued to increase and even in much of the third world.

Clearly, given current levels of technology and our "eggs all in one basket" (ie one planet) there appears to be an optimum population level for the planet to sustain humans in the most basic of needs: water and food.

It therefore follows that in order for those regions of the world that have or had large birth rates arising out of culture or / and religious diktat, for the developed world to maintain, if not increase, overseas aid to promote secular education, birth control, health & sanitation programmes and the controlled and sustainable development of their regions. Islam, Roman Catholicism, Orthodox Judaism, US based right-wing Christians and other supporters of "the go forth and populate the world" need to be swept into the dustbin of history.

In the developed world, with our largely "in control" birth rates, we are addressing our consumption and use of energy although clearly there is much that needs to be improved for us to reduce our demands on the planet. Those nations that are already down the road to full development including a massive increase in items such as car ownership and other western-style consumables, whilst understandably wanting to improve their nations standing and the living standards of their people's will need to ensure their growth in development is sustainable and therefore it is vital that they check any population growth.

The greenest thing any of us can do which is probably worth all possible recycling, driving an Eco vehicle sparingly whilst using public transport or walking instead, moving to a vegetarian diet, and having an Eco-home with solar panels, wind turbine and heat pump in one, is to have NO children or, at worse, stop having any more.

[Kendhni]

Ken, I think you are viewing this far too 2 dimensionally, try at least to think 3 dimensionally, in the round so to speak, rather than too much like a flat earthist, and try to "chillax" like our esteemed PM.

Alternatively try to view the situation based on fact and evidence rather than burying ones head up ones jacksie in the hope that it goes away. 2-dimensions is better than the 1-dimensional thinking of the delusionists ... Delusion and denial (for self-interest) are two of the biggest sins of todays population.

In the 80's I was very much an environmental campaigner .. I got spat on, I got jostled, I got punched, I got boo'd and various politicians tried to make us look stupid with their patronising attitudes. Those same politicians now realise they were wrong and, when there became political mileage in it, they woke up to what we were telling them 20 years previously ... but their only real interest is in retaining votes rather than taking the action they have been told after time is required. They don't want to tell a selfish, greedy, in-it-for-me population that they have to do things differently ... and in fact our own government will be taking some very large fines for not meeting certain environmental criteria (so expect your local taxation to rise).

An what did the population learn ... oh yes, throw their rubbish into separate bins and then pat themselves on the back for being environmentally friendly by recycling ... how wrong they are!

Personally I can take or leave environmental issues these days ... I have more or less given up and take the same attitude as the majority of people ... I will pay lip service to it based on the pathetic little surface-scraping the government asks me to do ... why should I care? it is not my children/grandchildren that will suffer ... but, despite other peoples attitude, for some inexplicable reason I actually do care!

[jay-ell71]

If putting out our recycling bins and wheelies every week is not helping the environment, why are we doing it? Is it not doing any good at all? Is it because it is all going to China for them to dump in their landfill? .............

[david63]

If putting out our recycling bins and wheelies every week is not helping the environment, why are we doing it? Is it not doing any good at all? Is it because it is all going to China for them to dump in their landfill? .............

Because by not doing it your Council will get penalised by the Government which in turn will mean that your Council Tax will go up

[jay-ell71]

Ah, I see.

[Dark Knight]

at some point, natural selection will kick in and we will see a decline in not only the birth rate but the survival rates, as the planet's resources slowly dwindle, then we will see a real them and us society.
nothing will change in the short to medium term, 10-40 years, as we have still have a disparate global viewpoint and there is no unified concensus as to what is the right course of action

without going off in the realms of sci fi, this planet will die and the billions of evolved apes will go along with it, as we are all too stupid and too selfish to think beyond our immediate wants and needs.

many will just say ,oh well not to worry I will be dead by then, which of itself is fine, but the legacy the 20th and 21st century will leave , will be the start of the death knell for the human race, unless there is a monumental global shift in the way we treat the planet

the bottom line is that due to the selfish greed of a lot of over evolved primates, they will cause their own demise, how's that for idiocy on a global scale and for all our self delusion and telling ourselves how advanced we are and how far we have come, we have not the first idea of what to do
Bottom line is greed, selfishness and stupidy............nothing more

[The Monocled Mutineer]

Dark Knight:

'Human Race'

Although commonly used by many, we are actually the 'Human Species' (Homo Sapiens) and made up of a number of races that continues to evolve and develop over the millenia to the present day and into the future.

Unlike other sentient but essentially 'dumb' creatures, Homo Sapiens has the potential to overcome the difficulties thrown up by nature, their own (or ancestors') actions and even from outer space.

As more of the world moves towards liberal democracy, embraces universal human rights and ditches religion, I remain an optimist.

[Dark Knight]

Mr Kane
semantics aside, unless we act in cohesive globally aligned manner, we will be slowly but surely heading for a very messy end to our brief stay in the cosmos.
no amount of technology can overcome the simple fact of too many people, not enough resources, yes, there have been staggering technological break throughs and many wonderful and inovative discoveries
however no one has yet discovered the universal panacea for greed, stupidity and rank selfishness

[Kendhni]

If putting out our recycling bins and wheelies every week is not helping the environment, why are we doing it? Is it not doing any good at all? Is it because it is all going to China for them to dump in their landfill? .............

Jay, much of what we 'recycle' actually ends up in landfill, more is being shipped half way around the world where it can be dealt with. The way we recycle at the minute is little more than paying lip service. Recycling is not necessarily environmentally friendly ... it is a bad side-effect of not reusing stuff ... which is itself a bad side-effect of not reducing what we use ... that is why the message is 'REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE' (i.e. in order of importance).

We have various EU targets that have to be met, and we are falling short of meeting them, which means the government is going to be fined which will be passed on to the consumer. There are then even tougher targets to be met ... but we are already behind.

A few years ago I was involved in a project that was looking at weighing bins as they were emptied into the bin lorries ... the idea was that those that generate the least rubbish would receive rebates on their local taxation funded by those that generate more rubbish ... the technology to do this was workable but the government/councils more or less chickened out due to social, logistical and other issues. In fact many wheelie bins already have the required technology fitted to introduce this (bet you never thought of your wheelie bin containing spying technology ).

[Kendhni]

Unlike other sentient but essentially 'dumb' creatures, Homo Sapiens has the potential to overcome the difficulties thrown up by nature, their own (or ancestors') actions and even from outer space.

That has been making me wonder if there is more to the amount of money being spent on sending exploration vehicles to the likes of Mars (and some renewed interest in travelling to the moon).

[jay-ell71]

It is all very depressing Ken.

Do we really think we can do anything about the problem, or will our grandchildren be able to solve it, or their grandchildren, or will the planet be gone before then.

We might as well all go to Switzerland to Digitas if there is no future for us.

I can't think like that. There will be a way, my glass is half full.

[emjay45]

It is all very depressing Ken.

Do we really think we can do anything about the problem, or will our grandchildren be able to solve it, or their grandchildren, or will the planet be gone before then.

We might as well all go to Switzerland to Digitas if there is no future for us.

I can't think like that. There will be a way, my glass is half full.

I agree Jay . For those of us who do have children and grandchildren, we have to believe their will be a solution to global warming and that someone will invent a reliable source of renewable energy. Otherwise we might as well all give up now.

[Kendhni]

Emjay, global warming is debatable however climate change is known to be happening (and always has been). In the UK climate change will mean milder winters and wetter summers. Is there a solution? A very good question, at tbe minute most solutions are short(ish) term including oil, gas and nuclear ... However ultimately it all depends on necessary resource being available.

[Dark Knight]

global warming a minor blip

renewable energy is already here

the biggest two problems are going to be food and water, the rest of it is a side show, if you really look behind the media dross, there are 6 billion people of which more than half are starving and living in unbelievable squalor
how long do you think it will be before they have decided that they are sick of watching the "civilised world" rape the planet whilst they die in their millions
what happens when they decide to act? millions and millions of people heading for Europe and America looking for food and water?
think about that for a while, a third of the worlds .fresh water is in Russia, most of the worlds food goes to less than 50% of the population and we waste it

[emjay45]

global warming a minor blip

renewable energy is already here

the biggest two problems are going to be food and water, the rest of it is a side show, if you really look behind the media dross, there are 6 billion people of which more than half are starving and living in unbelievable squalor
how long do you think it will be before they have decided that they are sick of watching the "civilised world" rape the planet whilst they die in their millions
what happens when they decide to act? millions and millions of people heading for Europe and America looking for food and water?
think about that for a while, a third of the worlds .fresh water is in Russia, most of the worlds food goes to less than 50% of the population and we waste it

If there is one thing the World cruise made me aware of is how many of the World's population are suffering. My avatar is a tribute to the people of Raboul, Papua New Guinea. A people so poor, but so nice it would make you cry as it did us.