Mistakes can happen - or is this theft?

[Boris+]

I know that mistakes can happen - but my question is 'Is this theft'?

I looked on the internet for a floor steamer, and found one on a website - and I was firmly under the impression that the item was in stock, and that I would receive it in about 3 days.

The company took my money and have been giving me the run around for a week or so now - everytime I ring them (they don't bother to contact me) I get this twaddle story that they have changed the day on which the product 'might be coming into stock' and that when it arrives they will send it out.

I my opinion they should have changed their website to either show the item as being out of stock or removed the item altogether from view.

By taking my money when they knew they had no stock and when they allege they knew that they 'had problems in getting the stock' is this theft?

Em

[Quizzical Bob]

Don't the 'Distance Selling Regulations' come into play here?

[david63]

Don't the 'Distance Selling Regulations' come into play here?

Possibly - especially the bit about not taking your money until the goods are despatched.

[Boris+]

I reckon that the company should have either clearly marked the item as 'no stock' or 'out of stock', and blocked the possibility of a transaction going through, or preferably they should have removed the item from their website completely.

Surely, in layman's terms this is obtaining money by deception?

I have now cancelled this order, demanded my money back in full, and I'll check the bank account daily until I have it. If I don't have the money back by Monday then I'll take action.

Em

[emjay45]

I had a similar experience with a catalogue company I have never used before. In May I sent off for a suitcase which was supposed to be in stock and paid with my debit card . When I received the confirmation email the expected delivery date was SEPTEMBER!!! So it obviously wasn't in stock.My husband wanted me to cancel the order but as I wasn't in a hurry I left it. It did arrive in September but I thought it was a bit of a cheek.

[The Tinker]

I found out, at my cost, that Argos online are culprits of this game. I ordered a picture and they strung me along for a few weeks. I, eventually lost it, after reading complaints from other customers online, and managed to email the MD - phone call in less than 30 minutes, a refund and a nice voucher for my troubles - beware always go to the store to buy goods from this lot

[Boris+]

Well I've cancelled the order (yesterday), and asked for a full refund - but it isn't in my bank account this morning, so it's stroppy email time then.

I did receive an email asking me to do a 'feedback' on my 'customer service experience' with this company. I rated it at 1 Star - because the service was disgraceful, when I telephoned to chat about the non-arrival of goods the people on the other end of the line just read out stuff (the same stuff) from a script, and it was read out loudly and at a furiously quick pace, so that I couldn't get a word in, despite several attempts. No big surprise that my 'review' was rejected! They only accept 'glowing references'!

Em

[sumdumbloke]

I reckon that the company should have either clearly marked the item as 'no stock' or 'out of stock', and blocked the possibility of a transaction going through, or preferably they should have removed the item from their website completely.

Surely, in layman's terms this is obtaining money by deception?

I have now cancelled this order, demanded my money back in full, and I'll check the bank account daily until I have it. If I don't have the money back by Monday then I'll take action.

Em

Companies aren't subject to the same laws as individuals (you can't send a company to jail for theft), and anyway so long as they intend to discharge their side of the bargain that's enough. That's the bad news.

The good news is that all the consumer law is in your favour. They have to refund you promptly. If they don't, and if you have sufficient time on your hands to raise a case, log all the ins and outs and put some financial value on your time and effort, you would most assuredly win in a county court. But they rely on the fact that most people are happy just to get a refund. Until people in sufficient numbers hold them properly to account, then they will continue.

Good luck.

[Stephen]

Name and shame them Em

[Stephen]

I reckon that the company should have either clearly marked the item as 'no stock' or 'out of stock', and blocked the possibility of a transaction going through, or preferably they should have removed the item from their website completely.

Surely, in layman's terms this is obtaining money by deception?

I have now cancelled this order, demanded my money back in full, and I'll check the bank account daily until I have it. If I don't have the money back by Monday then I'll take action.

Em

Companies aren't subject to the same laws as individuals (you can't send a company to jail for theft), and anyway so long as they intend to discharge their side of the bargain that's enough. That's the bad news.

The good news is that all the consumer law is in your favour. They have to refund you promptly. If they don't, and if you have sufficient time on your hands to raise a case, log all the ins and outs and put some financial value on your time and effort, you would most assuredly win in a county court. But they rely on the fact that most people are happy just to get a refund. Until people in sufficient numbers hold them properly to account, then they will continue.

Good luck.

Normally a letter to your credit card company is all that's needed if you have difficulty getting your money back. That's providing you paid by credit card of course.

[The Tinker]

Name and shame them Em

Agree with Stephen here - the only way to get a Company to sit up and take notice is to mention Watchdog or post on their community sites - twitter/facebook etc - all reputable Companies hate any bad press. I have always found that if you can find the top man/woman of the organisation then your problems should be solved quicker - the call centre people have no jurisdiction and as you said act like robots.

[Dancing Queen]

Would agree with Stephen here, if you paid by credit card just phone them and tell them you are in dispute with the Company concerned and they will place the transaction on hold until it is resolved.

My experience with refunds has always been that it takes 2-3 weeks to appear on your statement which is unbelievable considering payment is immediate.

[sumdumbloke]

I reckon that the company should have either clearly marked the item as 'no stock' or 'out of stock', and blocked the possibility of a transaction going through, or preferably they should have removed the item from their website completely.

Surely, in layman's terms this is obtaining money by deception?

I have now cancelled this order, demanded my money back in full, and I'll check the bank account daily until I have it. If I don't have the money back by Monday then I'll take action.

Em

Companies aren't subject to the same laws as individuals (you can't send a company to jail for theft), and anyway so long as they intend to discharge their side of the bargain that's enough. That's the bad news.

The good news is that all the consumer law is in your favour. They have to refund you promptly. If they don't, and if you have sufficient time on your hands to raise a case, log all the ins and outs and put some financial value on your time and effort, you would most assuredly win in a county court. But they rely on the fact that most people are happy just to get a refund. Until people in sufficient numbers hold them properly to account, then they will continue.

Good luck.

Normally a letter to your credit card company is all that's needed if you have difficulty getting your money back. That's providing you paid by credit card of course.

I agree. Getting the refund was a given in my mind. I have no doubt the OP will receive her money back.

I was responding more to the idea that the OP perhaps wanted the company to pay a slightly higher price for their 'deception' and perhaps be dissuaded in future.

[Boris+]

Well, the order has been cancelled and I am waiting for the refund of the amount paid originally. They are taking their time and have now been sent a stroppy email - and have duly replied with the age old excuse that it's the banking system which is causing the delay in the refund.

Hogwash - that is not the truth, and absolutely nothing will induce me to believe their excuse.

We'll wait and see - however, it's annoyed me to the extent that I had seen a gift I fancied on a website but for a quite substantial amount of money. I still want the gift, but the shop it is in is allegedly in York - QED I'll go to York to buy (and get a visit to Betty's too: win-win) my gift.

Em

[Boris+]

sorry - and no, it wasn't credit card, it was debit card. Most definitely if I bought the gift mentioned above it would be debit card; hence the trip.

Em

[jacksparrow]

The definition of theft used to be where a person dishonestly appropriates property with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.

[Boris+]

Hi Jack,

Still no refund - but in response to your kind post above, when I placed the order the website showed that there was plenty of stock, but it transpires that they knew at that point firstly that they had no stock and secondly that they knew that they were having problems in getting supplies in.

In this day and age the main reason I would imagine for a company having problems with goods being supplied to them is simply because they are not paying their suppliers.

So, for my part they jolly well knew that they had no stock, furthermore they knew that it was unlikely that they were going to have any stock in a reasonable period of time, BUT they took my money virtually as soon as the order was placed. So, for me that translates as theft or obtaining pecuniary advantage by deception, one or the other.

Well I'll give it until Monday and then I'll take action; I'm certainly not going to go without any sleep because of it; and I'll wait until the January sales and get one in a shop locally.

Em