Would we cope?

[haveabeer]

Wow DK what an opinion!!

I wonder how affected staff on board cruise ships are being helped/comforted. Also is money being raised on the ships to give to DEC?

On Facebook today


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P&O Cruises
With over 4,000 Filipino crew members working across our fleet of ten ships, P&O Cruises and Cunard wish to support our ship's company. This is not a short term crisis and we have pledged to continue to help those affected over the coming days, weeks and months, as long as it takes.

In addition to our company donation of US$100,000, we wished to set up a collection for our passengers and employees to contribute to, helping those affected rebuild their lives and communities. If you'd like to contribute, take a look at our JustGiving page on http://bit.ly/19n6EBy

Our thoughts and prayers are with our crew members in their time of need.
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[Admiral of the Humber]

Gill yes its easy to easy to donate but the question is how would we cope in this country should it happen here
Would we all pull together ,help our fellow humans ,share resources, stand in an orderly queue waiting our turn
We all see the pictures and want to help as much as possible we donate and hope that it helps but thats not the same standing in there shoes.
i have been amazed at there patience one week on and they still waiting for relief to kick in yes there has been looting but sure we understand that they are starving and most of the food is contaminated anyway
Would we be so patient under those conditions

HAB,

Please see my response to Dark Knight. I think we'd do very well actually. I can't really see why anybody should think differently. And as for donating some cash being "a salve for the conscience", and an easy way of "keeping one's conscience clear", honestly.....what else would you suggest Joe Public should do instead?

Regards
Rob aka AOTH

[haveabeer]

Gill yes its easy to easy to donate but the question is how would we cope in this country should it happen here
Would we all pull together ,help our fellow humans ,share resources, stand in an orderly queue waiting our turn
We all see the pictures and want to help as much as possible we donate and hope that it helps but thats not the same standing in there shoes.
i have been amazed at there patience one week on and they still waiting for relief to kick in yes there has been looting but sure we understand that they are starving and most of the food is contaminated anyway
Would we be so patient under those conditions

HAB,

Please see my response to Dark Knight. I think we'd do very well actually. I can't really see why anybody should think differently. And as for donating some cash being "a salve for the conscience", and an easy way of "keeping one's conscience clear", honestly.....what else would you suggest Joe Public should do instead?

Regards
Rob aka AOTH

Sorry AOTH wish I had your confidence maybe ok for a couple days once the panic set in it would be Everyman for themselves we saw that in the recent riots once panic starts then it spreads greed takes over

[Dark Knight]

I m not quite sure it would turn into some sort of apocalyptic movie but I do think civil unrest would follow the same level of destruction, if it happened here
you only have to look at the London riots, the situation in NI when that kicks off, there are many people ready to take advantage of any breakdown in law and order

regarding my comments about charity donations, whilst it may be some what left field, I stand by it, much of the value of donations doesn't get to the needy and people's consciences are slaved by dropping a few quid in a bucket, as they think they have done their bit
if they were really interested in a charity , they would donate time, not just money and volunteer for shelters, soup kitchens and the like

[Admiral of the Humber]

Gill yes its easy to easy to donate but the question is how would we cope in this country should it happen here
Would we all pull together ,help our fellow humans ,share resources, stand in an orderly queue waiting our turn
We all see the pictures and want to help as much as possible we donate and hope that it helps but thats not the same standing in there shoes.
i have been amazed at there patience one week on and they still waiting for relief to kick in yes there has been looting but sure we understand that they are starving and most of the food is contaminated anyway
Would we be so patient under those conditions

HAB,

Please see my response to Dark Knight. I think we'd do very well actually. I can't really see why anybody should think differently. And as for donating some cash being "a salve for the conscience", and an easy way of "keeping one's conscience clear", honestly.....what else would you suggest Joe Public should do instead?

Regards
Rob aka AOTH

Sorry AOTH wish I had your confidence maybe ok for a couple days once the panic set in it would be Everyman for themselves we saw that in the recent riots once panic starts then it spreads greed takes over

Dear Dave,

I'll stick with my glass half full point of view. I raised your original question with the boys and and girls in my office yesterday and the general consensus was that they felt they would all rise to the challenge if it came to it. The same boys and girls will be digging deep for Children in Need tomorrow, not to salve anybody's conscience...but because they can...and because they know it is right to try and help others less fortunate than themselves.

Regards
Rob

[haveabeer]

AOTH
All very well from the comfort of a nice warm office but when your family is suffering with hunger dehydration nowhere to live no electric no phones kids crying with hunger would you be so charitable
You would do anything to survive to provide for your family

[Onelife]

Well Robbie, should a natural disaster beset our country I hope I’m living near to you because some of the things I’ve read on here tonight are making me feel quite uncomfortable.

Any suggestion that donating money to such as those poor souls in the Philippines is some sort of conscience cleaner does a great injustice to those of us who were actually thinking “there for the grace of whatever go I”.

Should the unimaginable happen, yes of course you would take care of your family first but at the end of the day human decency is the thing that rebuilds devastated lives?



Regards

Keefy

[Admiral of the Humber]

AOTH
All very well from the comfort of a nice warm office but when your family is suffering with hunger dehydration nowhere to live no electric no phones kids crying with hunger would you be so charitable
You would do anything to survive to provide for your family

Dear Dave,

How can we possibly say how we would react if something so terrible as the disaster in the Philippines was to befall us until it actually happened. At least my colleagues and I are optimistic that we would do the right thing and are not dismissing our chances out of hand as many contributors to this thread are doing.

Regards
Rob

[Admiral of the Humber]

Well Robbie, should a natural disaster beset our country I hope I’m living near to you because some of the things I’ve read on here tonight are making me feel quite uncomfortable.

Any suggestion that donating money to such as those poor souls in the Philippines is some sort of conscience cleaner dose a great injustice to those of us who were actually thinking “there for the grace of whatever go I”.

Should the unimaginable happen, yes of course you would take care of your family first but at the end of the day human decency is the thing that rebuilds devastated lives?



Regards

Keefy

Thank you Keefy for your wise words.

[Frank Manning]

Well Robbie, should a natural disaster beset our country I hope I’m living near to you because some of the things I’ve read on here tonight are making me feel quite uncomfortable.

Any suggestion that donating money to such as those poor souls in the Philippines is some sort of conscience cleaner dose a great injustice to those of us who were actually thinking “there for the grace of whatever go I”.

Should the unimaginable happen, yes of course you would take care of your family first but at the end of the day human decency is the thing that rebuilds devastated lives?



Regards

Keefy

You are right Keefy. From this distance giving money is all ordinary people can do, and it is cynical to think that it is just a salve for the conscience. It is about compassion for our fellow human beings and doing what we can to help, in whatever way we can.

My only problem with charities is that once they have your details the appeals are endless, and there does come a point where you tire of them coming through the post. Often three or four each day.
Sue and I try to raise money for the Missions to Seafarers, and next Tuesday we are riunning a Christmas Fair in Bournemouth, which has cost us a lot of time and money. We dont mind that. However through the post yesterday came appeals separately addressed to each of us asking for donations, and my heart sank at the thought of the waste involved in sending the same appeal separately to husband and wife living in the same house. Incidentally the Mission to Seafarers is also appealing on the Phillipines crisis because so many sailors are Filipinos.

[Kendhni]

My only problem with charities is that once they have your details the appeals are endless, and there does come a point where you tire of them coming through the post. Often three or four each day.

I agree whole heartedly with you there. I have charities I generally support including some that our entire family have traditionally supported ... it really annoys me the number of letters, pens, 12p, cards etc. that I get through the post. Then you hear of the large salaries and expense accounts run up by those operating the charities!

I used to donate by direct debit but one charity particularly annoyed me ... nearly every month they were sending me begging letters for more and then started phoning me to try their emotional blackmail ... I cancelled all direct debits to all charities and now only donate when I can give anonymously.

The other ting that annoys me is that most 'religions' have jumped on the charitable bandwagon for various schemes ... I am not convinced that all such services are genuine charities.

[Frank Manning]

I must say in fairness that The Mission to Seafarers runs a presence in 260 ports around the world on an annual budget of about £5M, and it has a skelton staff in its head office in London. Most of their people are out there around the world where the seafarers need them. They will be there for the Filipino sailors who need them along with their sister seafarers charities.

By the way, how many charity bags do you get through your door every week? We seem to get at least two, and we look carefully at the small print because not all of them are genuine.

[Dark Knight]

I have friends who work for charities and by that I mean actually work
they go around building schools, putting in santiation and water pipes etc in war zones and the third world

the biggest issue bar none is lack of people to do the graft, so my views are borne out of several long conversatiobns with them about building hospitals in war zones and seeing kids dying as they havent got enough doctors, nurses and people on the ground to help

so when people say they have contributed to this and that ,yes I am very cynical, coz if these people really cared they would donate the most scarce resourse of all....TIME and not drop a few quid in an envelope and think they had made a difference

[Frank Manning]

...so when people say they have contributed to this and that ,yes I am very cynical, coz if these people really cared they would donate the most scarce resourse of all....TIME and not drop a few quid in an envelope and think they had made a difference[/quote]

My neighbour is an 82 year old lady, with no sight in one eye and a cataract in the other. She turns out by bus one or two days a week to work in Oxfam putting the books on e bay. Next Tuesday she will be with us at the coffee morning, working, and yes we will be raising money. Trust me if I could go ship visiting or working at the Southampton Mission I would be there pdq, because yes, that is the front line. But without money there would be no front line.

[Dark Knight]

Frank
my comments are generic, not aimed at anyone person

[sumdumbloke]

I have friends who work for charities and by that I mean actually work
they go around building schools, putting in santiation and water pipes etc in war zones and the third world

the biggest issue bar none is lack of people to do the graft, so my views are borne out of several long conversatiobns with them about building hospitals in war zones and seeing kids dying as they havent got enough doctors, nurses and people on the ground to help

so when people say they have contributed to this and that ,yes I am very cynical, coz if these people really cared they would donate the most scarce resourse of all....TIME and not drop a few quid in an envelope and think they had made a difference

This is just nonsense - utterly unconnected to reality.

Most people can't give up their lives to go and build hospitals in Africa or whatever. Most people - the absolute majority - would be a liability in such circumstances anyway. Nor can they suddenly declare themselves qualified as a doctor and go and treat people. What they can do is to give money; freely and in the honest belief that they've put themselves on the right side of the moral question. They've done the right thing.

Whether or not that results in their conscience being 'salved' is neither here nor there. Do you suggest they should feel guilty for doing it? What is the appropriate emotion?

[Onelife]

Hi DK,

We have friends who run a charity in a third world country, indeed they are both out there now.

The thing that has allowed them to build the school block, houses and better sanitation facilities is due to the many that donate monthly amounts to support the running of this orphanage.

Forgive me for speaking bluntly but I think you’re way out of step with what you think should happen and what for most would be an unrealistic expectation...

Regards

Keith

[Dark Knight]

SDM
put themselves on the right side of the moral question....salve their conscience
potato/potato

Keith
Donations are obviously needed and important ,my point is that throwing a couple of quid in a bucket is easy and soothes the conscience
if people really cared then perhaps they could give up some of their precious time and go and volunteer in a shelter, a soup kitchen or a charity shop?
lobbing a few quid here and there is easy but actually physically doing something ??? i doubt it
so I am cynical of the motives of many self proclaimed givers

[sumdumbloke]

SDM
put themselves on the right side of the moral question....salve their conscience
potato/potato

Keith
Donations are obviously needed and important ,my point is that throwing a couple of quid in a bucket is easy and soothes the conscience
if people really cared then perhaps they could give up some of their precious time and go and volunteer in a shelter, a soup kitchen or a charity shop?
lobbing a few quid here and there is easy but actually physically doing something ??? i doubt it
so I am cynical of the motives of many self proclaimed givers

I think cynical is exactly the right word, DK.

I think I understand the point that some people could perhaps do more, but that's another, different argument.

[Admiral of the Humber]

SDM
put themselves on the right side of the moral question....salve their conscience
potato/potato

Keith
Donations are obviously needed and important ,my point is that throwing a couple of quid in a bucket is easy and soothes the conscience
if people really cared then perhaps they could give up some of their precious time and go and volunteer in a shelter, a soup kitchen or a charity shop?
lobbing a few quid here and there is easy but actually physically doing something ??? i doubt it
so I am cynical of the motives of many self proclaimed givers

DK,
I am a caring person. I am also a person with a little bit of spare money but very little time. I regularly donate to charity, in particular the RNLI and Children in Need. I have no time but I have money so I donate money. I do not do this to lift myself to some higher moral plane, I do it because I can and in the knowledge that my contributions no matter how small will be useful to the recipients. I don't see anything unusual with my philosophy towards charity and honestly cannot see what point you are trying to make.

Regards
Rob

[Dark Knight]

AOTH
The topic departed from the origin, when it was suggested that by giving money to charity , it proved that the UK is a cohesive and caring society and not morally bankrupt
my point was that that was nonesense and chucking a few quid in a collection does not prove anything and for some, is a way to salve their conscience

and as usual ,any left field view was flamed

so I will bow out , as it obvious I am far too cynical for this debate

[Frank Manning]

AOTH

so I will bow out , as it obvious I am far too cynical for this debate

Dont bow out DK. You are as entitled to your opinion as any of us. Discussion is all part of life's rich pattern.

[Onelife]

AOTH

so I will bow out , as it obvious I am far too cynical for this debate

Dont bow out DK. You are as entitled to your opinion as any of us. Discussion is all part of life's rich pattern.

It is indeed Frank and knowing when to bow out takes good judgment

Regards

Keith

[Felix2]

Thanks for that haveabeer. Very good to know.

They certainly need our support at this horrendous time.

[Gill W]

Hi DK,

We have friends who run a charity in a third world country, indeed they are both out there now.

The thing that has allowed them to build the school block, houses and better sanitation facilities is due to the many that donate monthly amounts to support the running of this orphanage.

Forgive me for speaking bluntly but I think you’re way out of step with what you think should happen and what for most would be an unrealistic expectation...

Regards

Keith

I mentioned that I worked in the charity sector. I work for a bank whose customers are charities, from the really large ones to the tiniest of charities, and it's amazing to see the amount of donations that are paid into their accounts, both small and large, from private individuals.

As part of my role, I deal with requests from the charities to transfer funds overseas, and monies go directly to the accounts of people who are going to do the work on the ground. Lots of these charities are like OL's friend's charity, which try to make peoples lives better.

I can't believe all these people giving to these causes are just salving their conscience - they are trying, in their small way, to help.