Beware dear OAP

[Manoverboard]

Crikey, did your pics come with gold plated edges? Our cost less than a fiver in one of those little booths, or would have done if I'd not had mine left over than a batch of four for a fiver, one of which is on my driving licence.

Of course they have Gold plated edges, what a silly question

ps ... the booths do not do the correct size for our darling Jobswoths

[Quizzical Bob]

MJ
some think that the sate pension is a right and cannot be taken away or tampered with, the reality is quite different, it is an entitlement, that can be taken away with the stroke of a pen

and many people seem to think that paying tax and NI means you have a pension for life...not the case

It was a right when we started paying in to the system. That was the deal then and that is the deal now. Pensions are not a benefit, they have been earned by the majority of people who receive them. Successive governments have chosen to use the contributions for current spending, effectively the have borrowed from the pension fund, just as Robert Maxwell did only he didn't pay it back. Of course, any government could renege on this deal but there would be rioting in the streets.

[Dark Knight]

Qbob
read the pensions act and then you can tell me I was right and you and all the others who claim it is a right can eat humble pie

The Act defines “money purchase benefits” in legislation relating to pensions. This is in consequence of the judgment of the Supreme Court in Houldsworth v Bridge Trustees and Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. The Act takes powers to make transitional, consequential or supplementary provision as well as the power to make further amendments to the definition of “money purchase benefits” if necessary.

The Act introduces provisions into the current judicial pension schemes to allow contributions to be taken towards the cost of providing personal pension benefits to members of those schemes
stolen from the pensions act

I guess you owe me an apology then?

[Manoverboard]

Nothing to worry about ... 90% of us pensioners take the trouble to vote whereas 10% is the norm for the boy racers.

No prizes for working out what will happen next

[emjay45]

MJ
some think that the sate pension is a right and cannot be taken away or tampered with, the reality is quite different, it is an entitlement, that can be taken away with the stroke of a pen

and many people seem to think that paying tax and NI means you have a pension for life...not the case

You are quite right the pension is an entitlement. I was pointing out that it was not a benefit. As QB says when the National Insurance scheme came into being, people were told they were be looked after for life.
If you wish to blame anyone for the reason you and my sons will not receive a state pension blame the right people, not today's pensioners. The blame lies squarely with an inept Labour Government, greedy bankers. and a must have generation who lived on credit they could not afford to pay back.

[Dark Knight]

Mj
not blaming anyone
just pointing out that pensions are not a right
by the time I retire, there will most likely not be a state pension to speak of
which is why I have a private pension, that hopefully will far outstrip anything the government will offer

[Quizzical Bob]

Qbob
read the pensions act and then you can tell me I was right and you and all the others who claim it is a right can eat humble pie

The Act defines “money purchase benefits” in legislation relating to pensions. This is in consequence of the judgment of the Supreme Court in Houldsworth v Bridge Trustees and Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. The Act takes powers to make transitional, consequential or supplementary provision as well as the power to make further amendments to the definition of “money purchase benefits” if necessary.

The Act introduces provisions into the current judicial pension schemes to allow contributions to be taken towards the cost of providing personal pension benefits to members of those schemes
stolen from the pensions act

I guess you owe me an apology then?

Not at all. That judgment relates to private pension schemes, not the state pension.

[emjay45]

Mj
not blaming anyone
just pointing out that pensions are not a right
by the time I retire, there will most likely not be a state pension to speak of
which is why I have a private pension, that hopefully will far outstrip anything the government will offer

Sorry DK I was getting it mixed up with your thread about Baby Boomers. This is your comment isn't it blaming baby boomers?

I find it very amusing that the most vocal defenders of this are the most well off , who it seems are very much the I'm alright Jack brigade and sod the rest
I also find it very telling that the 60's and the 70's are always thrown out as examples of hardship, but the 80's and 90's which were boom time for the BB's are very easily ignored, seems there IS some guilt after all
from a personal perspective, any state pension I receive will be a minor part of my retirement income, assuming all things are equal, and I view my taxes and NI as paying for my day to day living not as government savings account for me to take back when it suits me.
Interestingly it has been stated by the various bods that "only 10% of pensioners are struggling"", so that means 90% of them did okay from the last few decades, whereas youth unemployment is rising, young people cannot afford houses and the pension age for my generation is getting put further and further back

seems that BB's have done well and the following generations are paying for this and will continue to do so for many many years to come

[david63]

Whilst the state pension may technically be classed as a benefit it is the only one to my knowledge that has to be earned. In order to receive a state pension you have to have made the required number of years national insurance contributions/credits (currently 30 years I believe) - failure to do so results in a reduced or worst case scenario no state pension.

In the short term there is no way that any government will scrap the state pension as to do so would be political suicide and would probably mean that they would not be in government for many years, if ever again - despite the fact that all the other political parties would be in agreement.

I think that we probably all agree that the current state pension will not be (probably is not now) sustainable in the long term and what is more likely to happen is that a long term plan will be devised whereby people entering the workplace for the first time will be told that there will be no state pension and that they will need to make their own provision - however I doubt that will happen in any of our [working] lifetimes.

Incidentally part of my state pension is paid as a right and cannot be withdrawn - that being graduated contributions.

[Boris+]

I wonder - maybe before County Councils etc go pruning things like bus passes - what about pruning the lease-hire/contract hire swanky vehicles 'given' to their top people?

Ooooooh they exclaim that nobody worthwhile would apply for those positions if there was no 'free' car - but I bet they would!

I would happily see fewer 'free' cars and keep bus passes - I think it's fairer all around.

Em

[david63]

Don't mind the scrapping bus passes if it means keeping bus services - after all a bus pass is of little use if there are no buses to use it on.

[oldbluefox]

In rural areas it's probably the bus passes which are keeping the buses running. Scrap the bus passes and the bus routes will go. Everybody loses.

[Quizzical Bob]

In rural areas it's probably the bus passes which are keeping the buses running. Scrap the bus passes and the bus routes will go. Everybody loses.

You've saved me posting the same comment.

Oh

[Dark Knight]

so given that the state pension is a benefit, is it right to tar them with the same brush, as the rest of the sofa sloths and Kyle fodder claiming benefits?
hmm one to ponder

[emjay45]

so given that the state pension is a benefit, is it right to tar them with the same brush, as the rest of the sofa sloths and Kyle fodder claiming benefits?
hmm one to ponder

You do know that 'envy' is one of the Seven Deadly Sins don't you

[Quizzical Bob]

so given that the state pension is a benefit, is it right to tar them with the same brush, as the rest of the sofa sloths and Kyle fodder claiming benefits?
hmm one to ponder

One more time... IT'S NOT A BENEFIT!

[Dark Knight]

Qbob
if it is not a benefit, then please find me the legal and governmental description of what it is
coz you are dead wrong, it is a benefit...so pensioners are on benefits...end of
and if you are a pensioner?? you are on benefits, just like all those other people, who spend it on drink, drugs, mobile phones and tattooo's that middle england are so fond of abusing and denegrating

ha ha bloody ha

[Dark Knight]

Many countries have created funds for their citizens and residents to provide income when they retire (or in some cases become disabled). Typically this requires payments throughout the citizen's working life in order to qualify for benefits later on. A basic state pension is a "contribution based" benefit, and depends on an individual's contribution history. For examples, see National Insurance in the UK, or Social Security in the USA.

QBob

humble pie on the menu??

stolen from Wiki by me to prove to the poster with his head in the sand, that pensioners are on benefits

ha ha ha

[david63]

Sorry QB but I have to agree with DK that the State Pension is a benefit - well at least the government think so

[Quizzical Bob]

Sorry QB but I have to agree with DK that the State Pension is a benefit - well at least the government think so

They may do now but it hasn't been so for most of the decades that those n their 60s have been working. Even now the DWP still talks about pensions and benefits as different terms, e.g. 'The Pension Service provides pensions, benefits and retirement information for current and future pensioners in the UK and abroad.'

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... ions/about

[Quizzical Bob]

Many countries have created funds for their citizens and residents to provide income when they retire (or in some cases become disabled). Typically this requires payments throughout the citizen's working life in order to qualify for benefits later on. A basic state pension is a "contribution based" benefit, and depends on an individual's contribution history. For examples, see National Insurance in the UK, or Social Security in the USA.

QBob

humble pie on the menu??

stolen from Wiki by me to prove to the poster with his head in the sand, that pensioners are on benefits

ha ha ha

Not at all. You are confusing state Benefits with a capital B and a State Pension which is often referred to as a benefit in the general sense. And please be careful when Wikipedia as a reference because it is known to be flawed. It is written by the great unwashed that have been trawled inter the net (see what I did there? ) and you can never judge its veracity.

[Dark Knight]

Qbob
I do so admire your persistence
me old benefit sloth
are you on Jeremy Kyle soon?

[Quizzical Bob]

Qbob
I do so admire your persistence
me old benefit sloth
are you on Jeremy Kyle soon?

Isn't that daytime television? I believe one of my ancestors used to watch that

[Dark Knight]

Apparently it is very popular with those in reciept of benefits, like pensioners

[oldbluefox]

Benefits, entitlement - it's all semantics and I couldn't give a tuppenny cuss what it is called. All I know is I worked all my life, much of my time unpaid, paid all my taxes and never claimed any benefit, unlike the freeloaders who have never worked for any good reason since they see benefit as a chosen lifestyle and for whom work is beneath them. Cut out abuse of the system, including black market labour and most of the arguments surrounding benefits will disappear.

Must go - I'm missing Jeremy Kyle!!!