Brexit

[towny44]

I think it’s another dead cat.

Johnson said we’d be leaving on 31st October, ‘do or die’.

We clearly aren’t leaving on the 31st - but he’s hoping everyone will start talking about elections and forget what he said about the 31st

Boris is a showman Gill, he desperately wanted to leave by 31st Oct but circumstances conspired to make that impossible, but like all good showman he now has another act he wants to promote. And we all love our days out at Disney the greatest show on earth, don't we?

[Gill W]

They also said he couldn't get a deal...............
Bring on a General Election and a chance to drain the swamp.

The ‘deal’ is basically an epic capitulation from Johnson, who has basically accepted what the EU suggested in the first place.

Do we really have to talk about ‘draining the swamp’. The origins of that phrase are from somewhere we don’t really want to go.

[towny44]

They also said he couldn't get a deal...............
Bring on a General Election and a chance to drain the swamp.

The ‘deal’ is basically an epic capitulation from Johnson, who has basically accepted what the EU suggested in the first place.

Do we really have to talk about ‘draining the swamp’. The origins of that phrase are from somewhere we don’t really want to go.

Can you expound on why you think Bojo's deal a capitulation please. From my understanding of what the media have outlined it takes us out of the EU, the customs union, the single market and the clutches of the ECJ, It leaves us able negotiate our own free trade deals, and hopefully able to agree a favourable deal with the EU, all of which are fully in line with why I voted leave, I realise this might not be to your liking but your "Epic Capitulation" seems grossly over stated.

[Manoverboard]

They also said he couldn't get a deal...............
Bring on a General Election and a chance to drain the swamp.

I note that Gill doesn't like the phrase but I think it fits perfectly if you are suggesting that the electorate will have a chance to get rid of the dross and deadwood that presently sit in what passes as the House of Parliament.

[Ray Scully]

Well folks, it is what it is, so despite all the pontificating and hashing of teeth, we will make not a jot of difference, better to just chill out, que sera sera

[david63]

we will make not a jot of difference

Whatever happens at the GE will make a vast difference, one way or the other, and that is totally in our (collective) hands.

[towny44]

Well folks, it is what it is, so despite all the pontificating and hashing of teeth, we will make not a jot of difference, better to just chill out, que sera sera

So Ray you are happy to stay in this phoney brexit state of permanent article 50 extensions?
Surely leaving with Bojo's deal would be the best outcome, we might even benefit from the much hyped Brexit bounce, and part of the uncertainty would be over. Although I accept that businesses and the financial market would then switch their reasons for dithering about new investment to their concerns about what sort of deal we would end up with the EU.
However even then I am sure the pessimists will still find something on which to hang their gloomy predictions.
My only hope is a landslide GE victory for Boris, the Libdems becoming the opposition, Labour decimated and eventually dying out, and the SNP getting a thrashing from Scottish Tories.
I love being a glass half full optimist.

[Ray Scully]

Well folks, it is what it is, so despite all the pontificating and hashing of teeth, we will make not a jot of difference, better to just chill out, que sera sera

So Ray you are happy to stay in this phoney brexit state of permanent article 50 extensions?

I'm just becoming bored with the whole situation. Its a bit like a lousy movie, unfortunately I can't fast forward to see if it improves. So am I happy with the situation? Well the family is pretty well insulated from any effects, but for the lack of medicines if we crash out, and I think we could also cover that. The real pity is that those who could get stuffed are those who suffered most from the banks crash. those at the bottom of the pile.

[oldbluefox]

They also said he couldn't get a deal...............
Bring on a General Election and a chance to drain the swamp.

I note that Gill doesn't like the phrase but I think it fits perfectly if you are suggesting that the electorate will have a chance to get rid of the dross and deadwood that presently sit in what passes as the House of Parliament.

Absolutely Mob. At the moment we have an impasse in Parliament which is largely caused by MPs who should not be there. They were voted in by the electorate on false pretences (to honour the result of the referendum) and are now following their own agenda to overturn the 2016 referendum, delaying the process of our withdrawal, switching parties and obstructing the business of government. This does the country no favours at all so we need to be rid of all the deadwood who promised one thing and have done something totally different, clear the waters and start again with a government which can operate and do what they promised. Drain the swamp seems to me totally appropriate, unlike the term 'the usual suspects'. (Never quite sure what we are suspected of doing to be honest as we are quite open in our views).

[oldbluefox]

Well folks, it is what it is, so despite all the pontificating and hashing of teeth, we will make not a jot of difference, better to just chill out, que sera sera

So Ray you are happy to stay in this phoney brexit state of permanent article 50 extensions?

I'm just becoming bored with the whole situation. Its a bit like a lousy movie, unfortunately I can't fast forward to see if it improves. So am I happy with the situation? Well the family is pretty well insulated from any effects, but for the lack of medicines if we crash out, and I think we could also cover that. The real pity is that those who could get stuffed are those who suffered most from the banks crash. those at the bottom of the pile.

The longer this impasse goes on the greater the uncertainty in industry who are reluctant to invest as they don't know what the future is going to be. Continually kicking the can down the road must be causing chaos for those who are prepared for Brexit but find the outcome continually being pushed back. Ultimately it is the workers who suffer.
Remainer MPs are frightened of a GE because they have a pretty good idea that a good many of them will be picking up their P45s after the way they have behaved.

[oldbluefox]

The ‘deal’ is basically an epic capitulation from Johnson, who has basically accepted what the EU suggested in the first place.

Unfortunately, Gil,l I haven't seen it so I have no idea whether it is a capitulation or not so I will have to take your word for it.

[oldbluefox]

"The Labour Party won't have a General Election cos they're chicken". Enjoy!!!

[barney]

Unfortunately you are correct foxy.
Labour's entire strategy seems to be built around the assumption that they will lose the next election.

[screwy]

Hopefully.!

[barney]

Hopefully.!

[Ray Scully]

[towny44]

Well any deal Boris agrees will be light years superior to the sort of fudged deal that Corbyn proposes.

[oldbluefox]

I feel I am missing something in the debate over the General Election issue.
If the Labour party won the General Election they would be entitled to enact their policies, and would be able to take no deal off the table. Conversely if the Tories gained power they would be able to negotiate a deal with no deal on the agenda.
So what is the problem, apart from the fact the Labour party know they don't have a cat in hell's chance of getting in?

[Kendhni]

The most likely outcome of a general election is another hung parliament - totally impotent to deliver anything. Looking at the numbers one high probability outcome is that a general election will make another referendum almost a certainty.

Even if it doesn't, a general election will not heal the divides in the country or the HoC. That is why brexiteers are so keen for a general election and are terrified of another referendum is because they know that a general election will never answer the single question that has caused the rift in society. Besides that we have already had 2 general elections since brexit, and they have failed to deliver, the only thing that can resolve this once and for all is a single binary choice referendum - and I believe the result of that is far too close to call.

More interestingly, some people seem to think that if Boris gets Mays flawed Withdrawal agreement (plus his sell out of Northern Ireland) through then that is brexit done. They are going to be sadly disappointed when they realise that that is just the end of the first (and probably the easiest) phase - nothing will change as we enter the transition period and start the next, and much more important, round of negotiations. The next phase is likely to be much tougher and the big questions on my mind are, how much will this pay-with-no-say deal cost us and what is next on Boris's surrender list to keep his brexit going?

[david63]

The most likely outcome of a general election is another hung parliament

Not sure about that Ken as a lot will depend on the tactics especially with the Brexit Party. I have a gut feeling that the Conservatives could have a [small] working majority.

They are going to be sadly disappointed when they realise that that is just the end of the first (and probably the easiest) phase - nothing will change as we enter the transition period and start the next, and much more important, round of negotiations.

Cannot disagree with that.

[towny44]

The most likely outcome of a general election is another hung parliament

Not sure about that Ken as a lot will depend on the tactics especially with the Brexit Party. I have a gut feeling that the Conservatives could have a [small] working majority.

They are going to be sadly disappointed when they realise that that is just the end of the first (and probably the easiest) phase - nothing will change as we enter the transition period and start the next, and much more important, round of negotiations.

Cannot disagree with that.

I do, in this first phase the EU has had the upper hand because they did not want us to leave and have been able to play hard ball in the negotiations. The trade deal puts the UK in charge because the EU has far more to lose with the huge trade imbalance we have with them, they will not want to force a stalemate leading to a no deal exit which should provide UK negotiators with a very large advantage.
Which is why Boris must NOT be forced to take no deal deal off the table.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I agree Towny. Others will tell us we have more to lose trade wise than the EU but the point is we both lose if there's no trade deal. The entire EU negotiating stance has so far been to try to stop us leaving. And they've agreed extensions not to please us but because they want to avoid no deal. Once we've gone the game changes. Imdividual countries will want to protect their economies so the pressure will be on to do a good deal.

[Manoverboard]

Getting a trade deal with the EU will be a walk in the park compared to the underhand fiasco that we have endured thus far, we both want to trade with each other and there is the difference.

As for the election Labour have shown themselves up for what they are and the Lib Dems want to remain in the EU. Fair enough but the population will shift behand Boris and the Brexit Party resulting in a working majority.

[Ray Scully]

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[barney]

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brilliant