EU - in or out

[Kendhni]

This is going to become a massive topic over the next few years. Up to now I have believed that the governments have deliberately kept us in the dark about how the EU works and have allowed a lot of disinformation and rumour to get out there ... but hopefully now we will see some genuine information being produced.

Sadly I still think any vote will ultimately be the result of ignorance rather than knowledge.

I am very much a fence sitter on this one and can be swayed either way. In general I believe that we are stronger as a single entity therefore I should be an ideal candidate for the 'In' camp .... however the whole system seems to be a gravy train to feed a bloated industry of self-serving commissioners that have totally lost the plot when it comes to dealing with money.

[oldbluefox]

the whole system seems to be a gravy train to feed a bloated industry of self-serving commissioners that have totally lost the plot when it comes to dealing with money.

This is a major problem with the EU. It is costing so much to support its operations in both Brussels and Strasbourg that one is led to wonder what value we get, especially as we are currently importing more from the EU than we are exporting. In times of austerity how long can we continue to support this organisation?

When I voted many years ago I voted for us to join what was then called The Common Market and I still believe in that notion. However with new markets opening up in India and the Far East I feel less committed and wonder how much we benefit from our membership of the EU. Certainly it needs a re-think. Already we have a shortage of jobs, our welfare system is overstretched, there is a shortage of housing, schools and hospitals are struggling, and yet we continue to take in immigrants from the EU which is fine if we had the wherewithal to sustain them.

A succession of red tape and directives from the EU has hindered progress and development for smaller companies so in effect the EU has hindered progress.

Clearly the Tories are worried by the rise in popularity of UKIP. What angers me is the fact the Labour party promised a referendum and the Tories promised one (although in fairness they are somewhat shackled by the coalition with the Lib Dems) and we are now promised one IF the Tories win the next election. A shade of cynicism here?

There are some interesting responses from leaders of other countries within the EU, both for and against. The months to come are going to be very interesting indeed here in UK and on the continent and I look forward to seeing what Cameron has in mind.

[towny44]

the whole system seems to be a gravy train to feed a bloated industry of self-serving commissioners that have totally lost the plot when it comes to dealing with money.

There are some interesting responses from leaders of other countries within the EU, both for and against. The months to come are going to be very interesting indeed here in UK and on the continent and I look forward to seeing what Cameron has in mind.

I think I am with both of you on this, I want to stay in a free market organisation with some centralised trade related organisations, but with far less beaurocratic interference from Brussels. But I think DC should keep his thoughts on what powers he wants repatriated to himself, in any negotiation it is essential that you do not disclose your fall back position until you have almost reached agreement.

[paultheeagle]

I will wait and see what new 'conditions' Dave can win for us as regards memberships rules..I have my doubts he will get very much at all..but will wait and see.

I do wish though that this Prime Minister would concentrate on trying to sort out the countries problems, like unemployment,(especially the young) poverty, homeless people, the economy etc...All they ever seem to do is make things worse for thousands and thousands of people.

It seems to me this European thing is just another 'smokescreen' the government want to hide behind so they don't have to deal with real issues.

And should 'Dave' be the man who gallivants around Europe negotiating our new terms...I don't think so.

[Kendhni]

But I think DC should keep his thoughts on what powers he wants repatriated to himself, in any negotiation it is essential that you do not disclose your fall back position until you have almost reached agreement.

Sort of reminds me of a certain chancellor announcing before hand that he was about to flood the market with gold
I am not convinced DC is the right person for such negotiations ... not sure who is though, I am not seeing the strong political characters of yester-year .. far too much political correctness and not enough straight talking

[oldbluefox]

He's an improvement on our Tony, but that doesn't say much.

[Dark Knight]

one of the biggest issues facing European manufacturing and the creation of jobs and wealth, is that Europe is a mature market both in terms of usage of products and materials and also over priced in terms of labour and manufacturing costs
when you have a mature shrinking market with low demmand and high costs , you are stuck
Migration is nothing new, the eastern block countries, who joined the EU saw western europe as a bottomless pit of money and benefits
now on the edge of a triple dip recession, every major european company is lookin east and south for expansion
the next wave of major economic development will be Asia pacific , follwed very closley by South America, with Brazil and Mexico leading the way
it is time for the europen union to be slimmed right down and to stop trying to make europe one big economy, as it does and will not work ever

the UK would do better forging trading and business links with Brazil, Mexico, China and India and leave the mainland of europe to stew

[gravy1955]

We were taken in by Ted Heath in 1973 ( without any consultation with the British people) on a lie and in the 1975 referendum we were persuaded to remain in on further lies and scaremongering. Over the 40 years we have been members of the community the political goal posts have been changed many times. In 1973 it was the "Common Market", then the E.E.C ( European Economic Community) and now the E.C (European Community). When we went in we were told that it was simply an economic measure designed to foster trading relations with Europe with no threat to our independence or sovereignty. Over the past 40 years all reference to economics has been dropped and drip by drip we have leaked powers and sovereignty to Brussels. Suddenly it was all about political unity and community and one currency ( good job we stayed out of that in hindsight).Now as a possible new referendum approaches ( although I'll believe that when it happens) we will have the same scaremongering tactics about possible loss of trade and jobs, as though Europe will suddenly stop trading with us.Neither do I believe that the EC is responsible for 70 years of European peace-that is down to NATO and the military support of the USA against the common "cold war" enemy Russia.

In my opinion the sooner we are out the better. I voted to come out in 1975 and over the intervening 40 years that opinion has only been reinforced.

Apologies for going on a bit

Rant over !

[Kendhni]

Interesting thoughts ... if we are to remain part of it then I think the EU needs to start selling the benefits of membership and not take it for granted.

[Dark Knight]

Question

What are the benefits exactly?

[Kendhni]

Wish I knew DN, I still think there is strength as a single entity, but I wonder if the price is too high

[Dark Knight]

Ken

I truly struggle see what we get for our £9 or so BILLION
Nato , yes, I get that, the EU no sorry no idea why we are in it
plenty of other countries manage without being in it, some like the Swiss have thrived despite not being in the club

we should look to China and South America to grow our exports and have a manufacturing industry we can be proud of

[paultheeagle]

If we come out of Europe will we still be allowed to enter the Eurovision Son Contest?

[lioness]

Can;t see that idiot Milliband doing much better. His brother could have maybe.

I think DC is doing a good job under the circumstances.

Unemployment has come down a lot which is strange given other things.