NHS

[Onelife]

I thought this made interesting reading. ..


http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015 ... tors-chief

[towny44]

It does OL but of course this is the view of a trade union and as you would expect it will be biased in favour of its narrow view of the subject, and how it impacts on its members. Clearly it would undermine its negotiating position if it said anything positive about the subject matter, so it can hardly be said to be a fair and impartial account.

[Onelife]

With respect towny l don't think many reading this article will see it as being bias at all? On the contrary l think after reading this they will have a better understanding as to why this ill thought out policy is unworkable in its present format.

What this conservative government really want is to spread an elective 5 day NHS service over 7 days without having given any though to how they are going to fund it but more importantly how they are going to staff the extra 2 days.

I think the move towards a fully elective 7 day NHS is desirable but not at a cost of pushing an already over stretched service to the brink of exhaustion.

Regards

Keith

[oldbluefox]

........................... and it is The Guardian. Hardly a paragon of impartiality. As in many of these cases the full facts are often buried or blurred. Biased argument, whether from the government, the press or the unions, makes it difficult to assess the true situation.

I reckon a few heads need banging together. The whole NHS service needs a review, not just Junior Doctors' pay and working hours. As an example I have yet to meet a nurse who feels that working twelve hour shifts is in the best interests of nursing as a profession or the patients they are treating. Does nursing need to be an entire degree profession? Do we need so many managers and administrators? Why are some areas of hospitals seemingly awash with staff whereas other parts are running around totally stressed? Why is equipment dished out to patients without any controls for its return whilst other parts of the NHS cannot afford drugs? No doubt OL can think of many more. I'm just a layman.

Having said that, over Christmas and the New Year my mother spent two sessions in hospital and I cannot praise the doctors and nurses highly enough (Ward 31 Leicester Royal ).

[Silver_Shiney]

The NHS could probably afford to pay a decent salary and provide full 24/7 care facilities if they stopped paying administrators such high salaries and stopped doing non-essential procedures like cosmetic (for vanity purposes) surgery.

[Manoverboard]

Re-negotiating shift patterns in any industry is extremely complex and expensive ... all Governments will deffo aim to achieve a suitable reward for the hours to be worked and one which the staff themselves fully understand. To achieve this the Doctors should have presented their own shift pattern, one that they will make work. ACAS or whoever to arbitrate.

Three major changes are required in the NHS as far as I am concerned ... drastically slim down Admin to reflect the model in BMI Hospitals, remove Trade Unions from this sector for front line staff and ban ALL strike action.

[Stephen]

I agree with Foxy.
I also can't understand why to get into nursing you need a degree. It's ridiculous.

A seven day service is not going to happen, at least not any time soon. We can't keep the doctors we currently have, who are leaving in their droves to work abroad let alone recruit more to bring online for a seven day service.

And it's only going to get worse.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I don't understand why a seven day service needs more staff. For a start the wards are open anyway, so nursing staff are already there, along with caterers, cleaners and so on.

And making other things available across 7 days won't create more patients. It'll just mean they are seen in a more timely manner if something happens at the weekend.

For example a patient who has a scan on Saturday won't need it again on Monday.

So the patients will be spread. Rota the staff to match.

Plus we often hear that the quicker some patients get the treatment they need, the faster they recover. So from that perspective a 7 day service should reduce the workload.

[GillD46]

But if the staff are spread over more days, unless they are expeced to work more, they won't be there throughout the week.

[towny44]

I don't understand why a seven day service needs more staff. For a start the wards are open anyway, so nursing staff are already there, along with caterers, cleaners and so on.

And making other things available across 7 days won't create more patients. It'll just mean they are seen in a more timely manner if something happens at the weekend.

For example a patient who has a scan on Saturday won't need it again on Monday.

So the patients will be spread. Rota the staff to match.

Plus we often hear that the quicker some patients get the treatment they need, the faster they recover. So from that perspective a 7 day service should reduce the workload.

I seem to agree more and more with everything Merv says, worrying isn't it!!!

But if the staff are spread over more days, unless they are expeced to work more, they won't be there throughout the week.

Gill, as Merv says the NHS has run a pseudo 24/7 service for years and indeed Merv points out that most staff already operate 7 day shift systems, even most of the doctors.
Jeremy Hunt's changes are being implemented to try and ensure that patients receive the same quality of care over a weekend as they do midweek, surely in the 21st century that's not unreasonable.
It seems to me that its the BMA who are trying to use Hunt's laudable intentions to persuade the public that the NHS needs more and higher paid doctors, not unexpected from a trades union but if they push too hard then they risk the government following Moby's attached recommendation.

Three major changes are required in the NHS as far as I am concerned ... drastically slim down Admin to reflect the model in BMI Hospitals, remove Trade Unions from this sector for front line staff and ban ALL strike action.

[Onelife]

I don't understand why a seven day service needs more staff. For a start the wards are open anyway, so nursing staff are already there, along with caterers, cleaners and so on.

And making other things available across 7 days won't create more patients. It'll just mean they are seen in a more timely manner if something happens at the weekend.

For example a patient who has a scan on Saturday won't need it again on Monday.

So the patients will be spread. Rota the staff to match.

Plus we often hear that the quicker some patients get the treatment they need, the faster they recover. So from that perspective a 7 day service should reduce the workload.

Sir Merv.....what this government is trying to introduce is a 7 day elective service e.g hospitals will be required to provide all the services that are presently avaliable through the week to that of which the same services will be avaliable at the weekends.

You say you don't understand why a seven day service would need more staff.....

Apart from the A&E which is a seven day service all other departments are rostered for a five day (working hours) week not seven, therefor adding an extra two day work load would require the equivalent in staffing levels, that is if hospitals wish to provide the same level of service that they do for a five day elective service.

Regards

Keith

[GillD46]

I don't understand why a seven day service needs more staff. For a start the wards are open anyway, so nursing staff are already there, along with caterers, cleaners and so on.

And making other things available across 7 days won't create more patients. It'll just mean they are seen in a more timely manner if something happens at the weekend.

For example a patient who has a scan on Saturday won't need it again on Monday.

So the patients will be spread. Rota the staff to match.

Plus we often hear that the quicker some patients get the treatment they need, the faster they recover. So from that perspective a 7 day service should reduce the workload.

I seem to agree more and more with everything Merv says, worrying isn't it!!!

But if the staff are spread over more days, unless they are expeced to work more, they won't be there throughout the week.

Gill, as Merv says the NHS has run a pseudo 24/7 service for years and indeed Merv points out that most staff already operate 7 day shift systems, even most of the doctors.
Jeremy Hunt's changes are being implemented to try and ensure that patients receive the same quality of care over a weekend as they do midweek, surely in the 21st century that's not unreasonable.
It seems to me that its the BMA who are trying to use Hunt's laudable intentions to persuade the public that the NHS needs more and higher paid doctors, not unexpected from a trades union but if they push too hard then they risk the government following Moby's attached recommendation.

Three major changes are required in the NHS as far as I am concerned ... drastically slim down Admin to reflect the model in BMI Hospitals, remove Trade Unions from this sector for front line staff and ban ALL strike action.

You don't have to explain to me how hospitals work - I was a ward sister and my husband a Dr! I know almost all departments work seven days a week, albeit many on an emergency only basis, but to operate them fully requires staff! So either more money is needed to provide extra staff, OR the same staff work weekends, which means they work less during the week. How does that make things run better?

[Dark Knight]

Why is the NHS treated with kid gloves and why are politicians too scared to call it what it is
it is an overblown , outdated institution that ,were it a real business , would have been taken over, slimmed down and run at a profit and give far superior service to the the hit and miss system we have in place now, oh wait we already have that, its called BUPA ?
it is high time the NHS was made accountable for the profligate spending and made to operate within a budget and to improve its service, no more elective surgery, no more cosmetic surgery, get rid of the bloated, layers of management and get it run on a patient first basis by trained and motivated staff, not by self serving quangos and not by professional managers who are paid ridiculous salaries
Also why do senior doctors and consultant get the right to opt out of doing weekends? they are paid by us, so they should work when needed , not when they have finished playing golf.
The right to strike should be withdrawn as it with other civil servants, which is really what they all are and they should be accountable for any patient deaths related to strike action and I mean properly accountable.

[Onelife]

I don't understand why a seven day service needs more staff. For a start the wards are open anyway, so nursing staff are already there, along with caterers, cleaners and so on.

And making other things available across 7 days won't create more patients. It'll just mean they are seen in a more timely manner if something happens at the weekend.

For example a patient who has a scan on Saturday won't need it again on Monday.

So the patients will be spread. Rota the staff to match.

Plus we often hear that the quicker some patients get the treatment they need, the faster they recover. So from that perspective a 7 day service should reduce the workload.

I seem to agree more and more with everything Merv says, worrying isn't it!!!

But if the staff are spread over more days, unless they are expeced to work more, they won't be there throughout the week.

Gill, as Merv says the NHS has run a pseudo 24/7 service for years and indeed Merv points out that most staff already operate 7 day shift systems, even most of the doctors.
Jeremy Hunt's changes are being implemented to try and ensure that patients receive the same quality of care over a weekend as they do midweek, surely in the 21st century that's not unreasonable.
It seems to me that its the BMA who are trying to use Hunt's laudable intentions to persuade the public that the NHS needs more and higher paid doctors, not unexpected from a trades union but if they push too hard then they risk the government following Moby's attached recommendation.

Three major changes are required in the NHS as far as I am concerned ... drastically slim down Admin to reflect the model in BMA Hospitals, remove Trade Unions from this sector for front line staff and ban ALL strike action.

Hey towny..... have you been smoking that pipe again? .. because on this issue l haven't read anything that would suggest the BMA have been asking for higher wages or thàt doctors have requested them..what we have here is a government who is trying buy doctors off in an attempt to get another of their ill thought out uncosted policies through.. ..no more no less.

Regards

Keith

[barney]

Slightly off topic but I'm not too impressed with the NHS at the moment.

I'm awaiting a knee replacement and have now been on the waiting list for almost 18 weeks, which is the target set for operations, from referral.

I rang yesterday to enquire about progress, only to be told that they were now thinking May or possibly June ????

The reason given was that they had no shortage of surgeons but a shortage of beds to put me in post op.

As you can imagine, I'm not have the op for fun but through necessity and I'm less than impressed with the service I've received.

Being self employed, It's important that I can plan in advance to minimise disruption to my cruise fund.

I could pay the 10k private fee but I'm too mean to part with my money for that when I should be spending it enjoying myself.

so, I'll moan

[Stephen]

barney

Tell them, if they can squeeze you in you'll being your own camp bed

[Mervyn and Trish]

We expect supermarkets to be open 7 days a week. Why not the NHS?

[JoanneB]

Having a family member currently in hospital my own humble view is that better admin would clear a high percentage of beds.

Since last having to use this hospital the quality of individual care has drastically improved, the individual staff members seem to care more and are friendly and helpful. However the person concerned has now had an operation postponed three times in a week, whilst waiting for further tests, tests which could be done the same day but have taken three days not to be yet completed.

In the small bay we visit there have been 4 patients on the same roundabout for what could have been an overnight laparoscopic operation.

And for another biased view Melanie Reid who is quadriplegic and has intimate knowledge as a user of the NHS had an excellent article recently

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/magazine/ ... 691040.ece

[Onelife]

Why is the NHS treated with kid gloves and why are politicians too scared to call it what it is
it is an overblown , outdated institution that ,were it a real business , would have been taken over, slimmed down and run at a profit and give far superior service to the the hit and miss system we have in place now, oh wait we already have that, its called BUPA ?
it is high time the NHS was made accountable for the profligate spending and made to operate within a budget and to improve its service, no more elective surgery, no more cosmetic surgery, get rid of the bloated, layers of management and get it run on a patient first basis by trained and motivated staff, not by self serving quangos and not by professional managers who are paid ridiculous salaries
Also why do senior doctors and consultant get the right to opt out of doing weekends? they are paid by us, so they should work when needed , not when they have finished playing golf.
The right to strike should be withdrawn as it with other civil servants, which is really what they all are and they should be accountable for any patient deaths related to strike action and I mean properly accountable.

Hi Darkone......This link may hold some of the answers





https://www.the-newshub.com/uk-politics ... for-health

[Onelife]

We expect supermarkets to be open 7 days a week. Why not the NHS?

They are

[towny44]

We expect supermarkets to be open 7 days a week. Why not the NHS?

They are

Yes they are but they do not offer the same quality care at weekends, and in my wifes case not even midweek outside of 9-5. If there had been access to thrombolysis treatment available at 7:45pm when she was admitted following a stroke, then her outcome could have been far better.
From reading Conservative website comments about this dispute I find that the quality of treatment for existing and A&E patients is the main driver for this reform and that it is the BMA who are rabbiting on about elective treatment,, and of course their demands for premium pay rates for weekend working.

[Mervyn and Trish]

We expect supermarkets to be open 7 days a week. Why not the NHS?

They are

In parts yes. But in other vital areas no.

[Onelife]

We expect supermarkets to be open 7 days a week. Why not the NHS?

They are

Yes they are but they do not offer the same quality care at weekends, and in my wifes case not even midweek outside of 9-5. If there had been access to thrombolysis treatment available at 7:45pm when she was admitted following a stroke, then her outcome could have been far better.
From reading Conservative website comments about this dispute I find that the quality of treatment for existing and A&E patients is the main driver for this reform and that it is the BMA who are rabbiting on about elective treatment,, and of course their demands for premium pay rates for weekend working.

Hi towny....l have used the term 'if only they had...' on several occasions but never in circumstances as tragic as your wifes. The NHS isn't an infallible system and mistakes, mis-undiagnosed conditions do go undetected....l am very sorry to hear that you found yourselves in this position.

......................

With regard to quality of care at the weekends not being as good?

Surely it isn't the case that quality of care is any worse than any other day of the week. I would have though it a matter of them doing different things. At the end of the day you can't expect the same elective services at the weekend if it isn't resourced to do so....isn't that the point doctors are making?

Regards

Keith

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm not sure anyone is talking about full elective services at the weekend.

Surely it's about full services, including diagnostics etc. for those patients who need emergency or urgent care at the weekends? It is a fact, for example, that access to scans is limited. And that is a major factor in death or poor outcomes for too many people.

[Onelife]

Information on the government's plans for the NHS to provide a 7 day service by 2020.

ContentsDocumentsNews and speeches

The government is committed to working with the NHS to make sure that:

people can get the access they need to GP servicespeople in need of hospital care at weekends, both those with emergency needs and those already in hospital, get the same high quality of care as they would during the week

People will be able to book GP appointments at evenings and weekends to get the right care when they need it. They will be able to access a mix of face-to-face, telephone, email and video consultations, which will provide a better fit with modern working lives.

Those with an urgent need will be able to contact NHS 111 by phone or electronically and the NHS will arrange for them to see or speak to a GP or other appropriate health professional – 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

Patients will get the same high quality, safe hospital care on a Saturday and Sunday as they do on a weekday. This means having enough doctors available to assess and review patients, providing access to important diagnostic tests and ensuring that consultants are there to make timely clinical judgements


..........

Hi Sir Merv...I'm not sure how some would interpret the above but it reads pretty clear to me.


'We will deliver  a truly 7 day NHS'


David Cameron.

I agree with you that access to scans are limited so perhaps instead of throwing money away on something that is unworkable, less of course this government can wave a magic wand cunjour up thousands of new staff to facilitate a truly 7 day NHS then the money would be better spent on providing more scanners.....early diagnosis  would probably save more lives than what this lying government are claiming are lost over weekends...


BTW....l don't suppose you  know where l could get my hands on a large....' I support the Doctors strike action' banner from, do you?


Regards


Keith