Post Brexit: the reality

[Dark Knight]

Well it wasn't the end of civilisation as we know it
The stock market hasn't collapsed
The housing market isn't in free fall
The UK hasn't sunk into the north sea and there isn't a mass exit of companies from the UK to mainland Europe

so the question is who lied to who? The remain camp predicted a massive economic downturn on a biblical scale and years of misery and financial desperation, yet the Bank of England admit they got it wrong, the sacked chancellor admitted he got it wrong , in fact the whole remain circus got it wrong
so here we are with a new PM , a new Conservative party and old labour dying by the day, the stock market is fine, growth is predicted to be 1.7% this year and a similar figure next year, no housing slump and no mass unemployment or influx of migrants and no mass exit of large corporations

All in all business as usual for the present........

[oldbluefox]

................................. and a brighter future ahead. Already Mrs May has dispatched her foot soldiers to lands afar to discuss extending our trade links free of the restrictions of the EU.

[Raybosailor]

Exactly DK but I'm not sure about a dying Labour party as their membership seems to grow by the day, sadly a proportion of their new members are Corbyn's mates from CND and Greenpeace groups.

I'm right behind TM but I hope she doesn't let us down like Cameron did, we need someone strong to stave off the initial bullying we might encounter from an EU with a hangover from Brexit.

[qbman1]

Did anyone except Ray, Frank, QBob and readers of The Independent seriously expect Armageddon anyway ?

[Onelife]

Early days Darkestone but you are right, the doom and gloom predictions have fallen on death ears thus far.

I have to say l am mightily impressed with the way Theresa May has conducted herself not only with her cabinet clear out, but having listened to her first PMQ's on Wednesday l really do think this country has found a leader that merits her title of Prime Minister.

Regards

Keefy lardyarse

[oldbluefox]

I wonder if those advocating Remain are now prepared to step forward and admit they were lieing, something they constantly accused Brexit of?

As for the Labour leadership..............
I find a certain irony that the cost of membership (and ability to vote) has risen from £3 to £25 and that 183000 'supporters' have been able to find it. I wonder what the response would have been from the Labour party had the situation been for a Tory leader........................You can almost hear the howls of disapproval. Mind you I wonder how many of those 183000 are coughing up £25 to vote Corbyn in (and hoping to destroy the Labour Party as we know it) or trying to ensure Mr Smith manages to topple him. I suppose we will never know.
Seeing him last night at the launch of his election campaign I could not help but think what a raggle-taggle bunch he had up on stage with him. As yet I have heard him say nothing of any consequence which might encourage me to change my mind about him. Must go and get myself a copy of the Socialist Worker.

[oldbluefox]

Early days Keefy but I also was impressed with TM in PM's Questions yesterday and on her subsequent visit to see Mrs Merkel. I am also pleased to see the way she has engaged all the areas where we might encounter difficulties early in her Premiership - Mrs Krankie, Mrs Merkel and Monsieur Hollande. With the Labour Party in such disarray she has a good opportunity to set herself and her party up.

[Raybosailor]

This nation of ours has come through far worse times than a divorce from a failing marriage with a dis-functional EU.

I grew up in the years after WW2, the poverty and near starvation, living through the terrible winter of 1947 when my parents couldn't afford coal and then enjoyed the good times of the 60's.

The proud people of this nation got off their backsides and worked to bring us through the bad times, I can't imagine that the young people of today will ever see those times and I sincerely hope not.

[kaymar]

All of the above is probably true so far but, before we become too euphoric, we need to remember that we have not yet left the EU, but merely voted narrowly in favour of doing so at some indeterminate time in the future on terms to be negotiated.

Long may the positivity last but I am by no means certain that some form of downturn will not emerge once we get down to the nitty-gritty. Remember that the Prime Minister appeared not to be in favour of an exit before the referendum and may (!) well seek to find some sort of middle road, which could, in fact, be the best solution in the long run.

[barney]

Did anyone except Ray, Frank, QBob and readers of The Independent seriously expect Armageddon anyway ?

The Guardian are still pretending Brexit never happened

Total head in sand as they called it so wrong.

It's worth logging on to their site just for a laugh.

"The reason the end of the world hasn't happened yet is because we are still IN the EU. and article 50 Hasn't been invoked.
Then it will be OK 50 has been invoked but we haven't actually left yet.
Then it will be Oh ! well that's what the experts told us !!!! "

Which side was really lied to ?

[qbman1]

Did anyone except Ray, Frank, QBob and readers of The Independent seriously expect Armageddon anyway ?

The Guardian are still pretending Brexit never happened

Total head in sand as they called it so wrong.

It's worth logging on to their site just for a laugh.

"The reason the end of the world hasn't happened yet is because we are still IN the EU. and article 50 Hasn't been invoked.
Then it will be OK 50 has been invoked but we haven't actually left yet.
Then it will be Oh ! well that's what the experts told us !!!! "

Which side was really lied to ?

There's no doubt the answer to that is "both" as no one knew then, just as we don't know now, exactly how it will all pan out in, say, 5 years' time

[screwy]

So seeing as it was a 'close run result' and the moaning remainers want to run it again....the Cup Final was a 2-1 win too close to call lets play it again....!!!!!!

[oldbluefox]

No! No! No! You'll be wanting a re-run of the Prem next!!!!
Actually it's the remnants of the Remainers who are now saying that following the Brexit vote they do not know what they are doing and they have not planned for the result. How can you plan for the outcome of a result you cannot predict? The full effects of Brexit will not be known until Article 50 has been invoked, negotiations carried out and the two year time limit expired. Ande even after that we are looking at a fluid situation but, by that time, we will be free of the shackles of the EU and open to worldwide trade.

[Frank Manning]

All of the above is probably true so far but, before we become too euphoric, we need to remember that we have not yet left the EU, but merely voted narrowly in favour of doing so at some indeterminate time in the future on terms to be negotiated.

Long may the positivity last but I am by no means certain that some form of downturn will not emerge once we get down to the nitty-gritty. Remember that the Prime Minister appeared not to be in favour of an exit before the referendum and may (!) well seek to find some sort of middle road, which could, in fact, be the best solution in the long run.

[oldbluefox]

may (!) well seek to find some sort of middle road,

Just as long as it's not a Bliar middle road where he wheedled his way out of an election promise by saying conditions had changed as a consequence of the Lisbon Treaty and therefore there was no need for a referendum.
I trust Mrs May much more than I would trust him.

[Manoverboard]

The Tories are re-branding themselves and will, it seems, focus on low to middle income families rather than old Etonians .... Labour are doing a rerun of the 80s when their militant activists voted themselves into power within the Labour Party and nearly destroyed it.

I cannot believe that they are making the same mistake again nor indeed that Mini-brain was stupid enough to make the rule change that has achieved it.

[oldbluefox]

That's what happens when you change the rules to suit yourself and it all blows up in your face.
Yesterday Caroline Lucas was bringing up the hoary old chestnut (again) of proportional representation plus giving the vote to 16 year olds. No vested interest there then? And then they wonder why people are so sceptical of politicians.

[towny44]

I like DK's summation but really it is too early to start enumerating the benefits just yet.
The big issue will be how the Three Brexiteers square the circle of negotiating an adequate trade deal for the UK, whilst allowing Merkel and Hollande (assuming they are both still in power come December 2018) to save face regarding the free movement of labour, and still allow the Govt. to "control" immigration. Although no-one has been able to persuade me why the free movement of labour is so sacrosanct to the free market ideal of the EU, other than it exists so it must be vital.
I just hope that the EU negotiators are pragmatic enough to recognise that the EU, or at least the German car industry, needs an economically strong UK and free trade with us, if it is to remain as strong and retain the same sized workforce as at present.

[Golden Princess]

Much to early to tell anything yet - who knows what the long term ramifications for such things as technology, science, universities, research, etc. etc. (not to mention the main topics raised - economy/immigration/security/NHS) will be over the next couple of years, 5 years time, 10 years time. At the moment it depends on which newspaper you read as to your views. Apparently, this is, possibly, a more unbiased either way, website https://fullfact.org/

[oldbluefox]

https://fullfact.org/

Probably as impartial as you can get. it's a good site.

[Silver_Shiney]

I find it interesting to note that nearly all of the Lady C's colleagues, who are from Poland and Romania, want tighter border controls...

[qbman1]

Presumably so they can't get out to go to Poland or Romania ?!

[Kendhni]

It is far too early to tell if project fear has any lasting basis, but at the minute many important indicators are going in the wrong direction - however we are only just 1 month in; we have not yet triggered Article 50; and we are several years (maybe even a decade) away from actual brexit (and that is assuming there are no serious legal challenges) - only then will we be able to see what the true impact is.

On the other hand we do know for a fact that many in the brexit camp were fooled by a systematic campaign purely based on lies and misinformation. It is quite amusing that the same people who spent time talking, tweeting, facebooking, chatting about immigration, costs, the law process etc. before the referendum, now seem to be pinning their reasons on even vaguer concepts rather than admit they had been sucked in by the lies.

Up to now we have had project ignorance and June 23rd will go down in history as 'ignorance day'. In a few years time we will have the facts and from that I am sure we will knowledgeably and intelligently determine what to do, quite possibly leading to Independence day.

[Kendhni]

I also think May has played this perfectly.

After the referendum the leave camp leaders went into hiding trying to keep their heads down - but she has placed them front-and-centre. It is their campaign and they have now been made to deliver - if they succeed, May wins (and even Cameron will come out of it well by being the person that allowed the people the vote); if they fail to deliver, May wins because she can say she put the best team in place and they basically could not deliver. So beautifully played and promises well for the sort of prime minister she could be.

[kaymar]

It is far too early to tell if project fear has any lasting basis, but at the minute many important indicators are going in the wrong direction - however we are only just 1 month in; we have not yet triggered Article 50; and we are several years (maybe even a decade) away from actual brexit (and that is assuming there are no serious legal challenges) - only then will we be able to see what the true impact is.

On the other hand we do know for a fact that many in the brexit camp were fooled by a systematic campaign purely based on lies and misinformation. It is quite amusing that the same people who spent time talking, tweeting, facebooking, chatting about immigration, costs, the law process etc. before the referendum, now seem to be pinning their reasons on even vaguer concepts rather than admit they had been sucked in by the lies.

Up to now we have had project ignorance and June 23rd will go down in history as 'ignorance day'. In a few years time we will have the facts and from that I am sure we will knowledgeably and intelligently determine what to do, quite possibly leading to Independence day.

But surely, Kendhni, you're not suggesting that the OP's celebrations are in any way based on ignorance?