Useful European Laws

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Mervyn and Trish
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Useful European Laws

Unread post by Mervyn and Trish »

I know we often moan about bonkers EU regulations (well I do) so I thought I'd start a thread through which we could suggest some legislation they could consider which would actually be useful.

I'd like to start with the European Directive on the Correct Use of Lifts 2014.

This would be aimed at those who:

a) Can't decide which way to go, so push both the up and down buttons
b) Say "I'm going up to go down", thus filling the lift so those who actually want to go up to go up can't get in, and vice versa
c) Having done a), enquire, as the doors open, whether you are going down, when the illuminated arrow clearly shows you are going up, and vice versa
d) Having done c), get in, press a button for the opposite direction to that in which the lift is going, and then do b)
e) Having done c), push both buttons again as soon as the doors close, thus making them open again
f) Having done e), do e) again
g) Having done e) again, do d)
h) On arrival at their destination (eventually) take one step and then stop dead in the centre of the doorway to consider their next move (this rule also applies to escalators)
i) While waiting for a lift to arrive stand so close to the doors no-one in the lift can get out
j) Having done i), when the lift arrives enter it without any consideration that anyone else might want to get out
k) **** in the lift.

Committing any of the above offences should result in compulsory attendance at a Lift Awareness Course.

A second offence should result in a 12 month ban on any use of lifts anywhere in the EU.

A third offence should result in a life ban on use of lifts anywhere in the World.

Now that's what I call useful legislation. :thumbup:

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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by oldbluefox »

Were you thinking of any ship in particular Mervyn? You have brought back some great memories. :D

l) Say 'Room for a little one' when the lift is clearly full and then gaze inquisitively, wondering who might be getting out when the red light flashes to say it is now overweight.
m) Stand at the bottom of the stairs whilst waiting for the lift thereby blocking off those who don't want the lift but do want to use the stairs,
I was taught to be cautious

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Manoverboard
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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by Manoverboard »

Good grief .... does ' one ' actually need to press ' ones ' own buttons in a lift ?

I always call out " 9 please Miss ", regardless of the gender of the perceived lift operator but the number does vary of course depending on my / our needs at that moment in time.

The Law ( clause ) that would be required to avert this action would be ...

n) Do not stand with your back to the lift operating panel thus preventing other passengers from making their own selections. Nor should you assume that everybody will be getting off at your deck / level.

:shh:
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Mervyn and Trish
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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by Mervyn and Trish »

oldbluefox wrote:
Were you thinking of any ship in particular Mervyn? You have brought back some great memories. :D
Not just ships Foxy. Just back from a stay in our time-share apartment in a 5 star hotel and observed the same there. At it's extreme, going up 8 floors to go down 1! :crazy:

And have you noticed the "little" one rarely is actually little!


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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by Boris+ »

Recently I watched (and heard) this woman 'tutting' waiting for a lift - she was only going DOWN one floor, and was (a) perfectly mobile (b) not drunk.

That (in my book) just about took the biscuit.

When we are onboard we never use lifts for going down, and only really use the lifts on embarkation day to go up if we are on a high-ish deck and we've got hand luggage to carry. Anyway, you can meet the nicest people on the stairs.

Changing the subject a tad, I'd like to see a law governing the use and control of these motorized wheelchair/scooter machines. I reckon that only people who need them should have them, and that adequate parking and space should be provided for them (so adequate convenient safe parking, and wide aisles etc in shops).

Em

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Re: Useful European Laws

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Boris+ wrote:
Recently I watched (and heard) this woman 'tutting' waiting for a lift - she was only going DOWN one floor, and was (a) perfectly mobile (b) not drunk.

That (in my book) just about took the biscuit.

When we are onboard we never use lifts for going down, and only really use the lifts on embarkation day to go up if we are on a high-ish deck and we've got hand luggage to carry. Anyway, you can meet the nicest people on the stairs.

Changing the subject a tad, I'd like to see a law governing the use and control of these motorized wheelchair/scooter machines. I reckon that only people who need them should have them, and that adequate parking and space should be provided for them (so adequate convenient safe parking, and wide aisles etc in shops).

Em
And who decides who does or doesn't need them, there are many reasons why a person might need one and it isn't always obvious.
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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by Boris+ »

Hi Jo,

I don't know - but I've seen perfectly able but incredibly lazy people using them! People with mobility problems etc I can see them needing one of these machines; but when the machine is owned by a family and used by all the family (one at a time, but sometimes carrying a child also on it), that's not right - surely?

I have watched a member of a family who owns one of these macines use it - and this person is perfectly able to get around unaided and has no need of the machine; but yes, you've guessed it, it gets left in a position blocking access for proper wheelchair users.

My daughter has a friend who really does need to use a wheelchair - and both my daughter and her friend get annoyed when they see either vehicles parked on pavements blocking the way for wheelchair and pushchair users alike. Similarly they both get annoyed with people such as the person I have described above goes around like a lazy wotnot in a motorized wheelchair/scooter machine which is absolutely not needed, and then blocks access for really disabled people and mothers with pushchairs. Bye the way, the person I have described above also gets enjoyment from riding a 'racing' type bicycle!

I suppose the next thing I'll go on about it people mis-using blue badges!

Em

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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by towny44 »

Surely a "useful European law" is an oxymoron!!!!!!!!!! :sarcasm:
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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by wolfie »

Dancing Queen wrote:
Boris+ wrote:
Recently I watched (and heard) this woman 'tutting' waiting for a lift - she was only going DOWN one floor, and was (a) perfectly mobile (b) not drunk.

That (in my book) just about took the biscuit.

When we are onboard we never use lifts for going down, and only really use the lifts on embarkation day to go up if we are on a high-ish deck and we've got hand luggage to carry. Anyway, you can meet the nicest people on the stairs.

Changing the subject a tad, I'd like to see a law governing the use and control of these motorized wheelchair/scooter machines. I reckon that only people who need them should have them, and that adequate parking and space should be provided for them (so adequate convenient safe parking, and wide aisles etc in shops).

Em
And who decides who does or doesn't need them, there are many reasons why a person might need one and it isn't always obvious.
Well said DQ.

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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by Mervyn and Trish »

wolfie wrote:
Dancing Queen wrote:
Boris+ wrote:
Recently I watched (and heard) this woman 'tutting' waiting for a lift - she was only going DOWN one floor, and was (a) perfectly mobile (b) not drunk.

That (in my book) just about took the biscuit.

When we are onboard we never use lifts for going down, and only really use the lifts on embarkation day to go up if we are on a high-ish deck and we've got hand luggage to carry. Anyway, you can meet the nicest people on the stairs.

Changing the subject a tad, I'd like to see a law governing the use and control of these motorized wheelchair/scooter machines. I reckon that only people who need them should have them, and that adequate parking and space should be provided for them (so adequate convenient safe parking, and wide aisles etc in shops).

Em
And who decides who does or doesn't need them, there are many reasons why a person might need one and it isn't always obvious.
Well said DQ.
I'd agree that in some cases it would be difficult to judge accurately. The same with who genuinely can't work because of a health issue and who is just sponging, or who needs a blue badge.

However, in each case it is a wide spectrum, with a grey area in the middle (the hard bit). There are, however, some clear black and white bits at either end. There are some who abuse things to the detriment of those who really need them.

I would give the example of the woman I once knew who used her blue badge to enable her to park in a free disabled space outside her place of work. At lunchtimes she would sometimes walk best part of a mile to the supermarket and back, carrying several bags of shopping, to avoid losing her free space. There were public car parks closer to her place of work than the supermarket - she just didn't want to pay to use them like the rest of her colleagues. Oh and at weekends she lent her badge to her able bodied daughter to park free when she went shopping. :crazy:


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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by colwill »

Boris+ wrote:
I suppose the next thing I'll go on about it people mis-using blue badges!

Em
I often take my mother into our local city for a gentle shopping expedition, which she hugely enjoys (91, registered blind, spot of age-related decrepitude). When we've finished in, say, M&S I find her a seat, gallop back to my blue-badged car, dump the first batch of shopping and return to retrieve her, fully aware of the tutting going on around me. Short of wearing a badge declaring what I'm doing in a disabled space, there is little I can do to avoid misunderstandings.

I've discussed this with other offspring of badge holders and we all find it deeply embarrassing. Any suggestions welcome.


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Re: Useful European Laws

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towny44 wrote:
Surely a "useful European law" is an oxymoron!!!!!!!!!! :sarcasm:
Since most of the European Commission are morons anyway Towny, you have QED.

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Re: Useful European Laws

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While I fully agree that genuine disabled people need to use the parking areas provided for them I do often think that the system is being abused when you see how many can walk/push a trolley unaided the equivalent of a quarter of a mile round a supermarket without needing medical attention yet can't walk from a regular parking space which is often not much further away from the disable parking!

What is the criteria for getting a badge these days.......tennis elbow, a broken finger nail......

Just my personal view.

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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by suespud »

colwill wrote:
Boris+ wrote:
I suppose the next thing I'll go on about it people mis-using blue badges!

Em
I often take my mother into our local city for a gentle shopping expedition, which she hugely enjoys (91, registered blind, spot of age-related decrepitude). When we've finished in, say, M&S I find her a seat, gallop back to my blue-badged car, dump the first batch of shopping and return to retrieve her, fully aware of the tutting going on around me. Short of wearing a badge declaring what I'm doing in a disabled space, there is little I can do to avoid misunderstandings.

I've discussed this with other offspring of badge holders and we all find it deeply embarrassing. Any suggestions welcome.
Take no notice of the "tutting" and those who judge you. They have no idea of your circumstances.
You are doing nothing wrong.

I have bad arthritis in my knees, feet and sadly now my hands, sometimes I am fine for weeks, other times I can hardly walk.
I was going through a bad patch when on holiday a few years ago and needed a wheelchair on some days...a stick on others..and just my hubby's arm on some.
I got tutting, and mutterings when given good seats or tables etc. ( the staff knew my problem).
Some people are judge and jury, without knowing any details!!

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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by suespud »

Stephen wrote:
While I fully agree that genuine disabled people need to use the parking areas provided for them I do often think that the system is being abused when you see how many can walk/push a trolley unaided the equivalent of a quarter of a mile round a supermarket without needing medical attention yet can't walk from a regular parking space which is often not much further away from the disable parking!

What is the criteria for getting a badge these days.......tennis elbow, a broken finger nail......

Just my personal view.
Stephen, I can push an empty trolley unaided, but have great difficulty when it is a bit heavier with shopping in. So the nearer the better. Having said that I don't have a blue badge!!


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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by Boris+ »

We have a family member who is in the process of trying to get a blue badge - serious mobility problems and heart problems too ........ and all they said is turn up for a test (in a town difficult to get to and no public transport), walk up several flights of stairs to the office (how ridiculous), and then they said 'we'll let you know by post'.

I can appreciate that some people need assistance in some form some or part of the time, but what I am 'going on' about is people who really don't need the assistance (like the instances other people have mentioned on this post) at all, and just use the equipment or privileges such as parking spaces because they are lazy. Do these people think that using equipment when it's really definitely not needed is clever or fashionable? They won't like it when (and if) they really do need equipment and assistance.

Em

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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by suespud »

Boris+ wrote:
We have a family member who is in the process of trying to get a blue badge - serious mobility problems and heart problems too ........ and all they said is turn up for a test (in a town difficult to get to and no public transport), walk up several flights of stairs to the office (how ridiculous), and then they said 'we'll let you know by post'.

I can appreciate that some people need assistance in some form some or part of the time, but what I am 'going on' about is people who really don't need the assistance (like the instances other people have mentioned on this post) at all, and just use the equipment or privileges such as parking spaces because they are lazy. Do these people think that using equipment when it's really definitely not needed is clever or fashionable? They won't like it when (and if) they really do need equipment and assistance.

Em
The thing is, how do you know they are lazy???
Example...
I could walk into a supermarket..looking fine, but as soon as I try to push a trolley with a bit shopping in..my knees give way, I'm in a lot of pain and I'm desperate to get to the car..hopefully very near.

So you could say..look at her..she is lazy..parking there...but actually you have no idea!!

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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by towny44 »

Boris+ wrote:
We have a family member who is in the process of trying to get a blue badge - serious mobility problems and heart problems too ........ and all they said is turn up for a test (in a town difficult to get to and no public transport), walk up several flights of stairs to the office (how ridiculous), and then they said 'we'll let you know by post'.

I can appreciate that some people need assistance in some form some or part of the time, but what I am 'going on' about is people who really don't need the assistance (like the instances other people have mentioned on this post) at all, and just use the equipment or privileges such as parking spaces because they are lazy. Do these people think that using equipment when it's really definitely not needed is clever or fashionable? They won't like it when (and if) they really do need equipment and assistance.

Em
Em, Do you seriously believe that anyone would go to the trouble of buying and transporting, or even hiring a scooter or similar to take on a cruise holiday if they did not have a mobility issue. Some people can walk looking perfectly normal, but only for short distances, so to help them derive the most benefit from a cruise holiday they use a scooter for longer distances.
Abuse of the blue badge system is however a different matter, we have one following my wife's stroke but it is only used when my wife is in the car, and in fact only then if she is going to get out of the car tnto her wheelchair. However even here your initial impression can be wrong as colwill's post proves, so although we also sometimes wonder if a blue badge user is genuinely disabled, we are tolerant enough to give them the benefit of the doubt.
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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by Boris+ »

Hi Sue,

You ask how do I know - that's a good question, and very valid. Generally speaking when it's a complete and utter stranger I don't know - I'm uncertain, but I can suspect. However, I know of some families where one person possibly has an actual need (and I certainly don't begrudge them the use of the scooter, in fact in that sort of situation I think it should be free), but the machine is more used by friends and family who most definitely don't need it - and that annoys me a bit. Then, sadly yes - these people selfishly take up space on a narrow pavement making other people including pushchair users have to get into the roadway.

I've seen a chap take his mother's scooter and 'drive' it to his place of work - what on earth is his mother supposed to do all day???

So, it's not a case of I don't know in this particular situation which I have referred to.

Not arguing, just explaining the background to what I said.

Em


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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by Boris+ »

Hi Towny,

I'm not referring to people who take their scooters on holiday/cruise, as explained above. However, once or twice in the past I have been pushed out of the way by 'alleged' wheelchair users during embarkation and similar procedures - only to see the self same people having a great and truly mobile time right throughout a cruise - now that I don't really understand.

However, by and large I don't have any issue with people taking their scooters on a cruise - that's nothing to do with me. What I was referring to, as explained in the previous post was people who use the scooter provided for a different family member.

Em

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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by Anne D »

My Husband has a heart problem and also mobility problem. He is very independent and reluctant to use aids . He has only been using a walking stick for the past year although should have done so earlier.

On our last cruise he found it very tiring on embarkation using the zig zag walkway between shore and ship. I think on this occasion the entry was on a higher deck giving a bigger incline. He was so puffed out by the time we got on the ship that he had to sit down before going on.
I have therefore badgered him to have wheelchair assistance for embarkation and disembarkation on our next cruise and this has been organised. He has insisted that he will get round the ship whilst on the cruise with only his stick and my arm as assistance. There is no doubt that anyone seeing him would know he has problems.

I would just add that we have two neighbours who insist on wheelchair transfer for the wife who some time ago had a back problem. However she is now fully recovered. When they went on their last flight I did ask if they were still going to have wheelchair assistance and they said and I quote :' Oh yes it makes it so much easier and we get through customs and the baggage hall in no time at all'. Now that I think is definitely taking the ....

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Re: Useful European Laws

Unread post by Mervyn and Trish »

As the OP can I put in a quick appeal to return to the original topic of ideas for useful EU laws?

I didn't mean to promote a row about disability awareness!

So how about a ban on stupid signs, such as "Streetlights not in use"?

In the daytime the sign is irrelevant. At night you can't see it because the lights are off!

Or the ones on some roads which say "use both lanes". Some motorists already do that and if we all do it there will be terrible hold-ups. Surely they mean "use either lane"? :thumbup:

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How about a ban on the EU :thumbup:

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Unread post by Mervyn and Trish »

Stephen wrote:
How about a ban on the EU :thumbup:
Good one Stephen. The trouble is that France, Germany and most of the rest would ignore it, like they usually do with most EU laws! It's only us Brits daft enough to conform (oh and by the way I have that last statement confirmed by somebody who works in Brussels!

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Unread post by towny44 »

Mervyn and Trish wrote:
As the OP can I put in a quick appeal to return to the original topic of ideas for useful EU laws?

I didn't mean to promote a row about disability awareness!

So how about a ban on stupid signs, such as "Streetlights not in use"?

In the daytime the sign is irrelevant. At night you can't see it because the lights are off!

Or the ones on some roads which say "use both lanes". Some motorists already do that and if we all do it there will be terrible hold-ups. Surely they mean "use either lane"? :thumbup:
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