Brexit

[Gill W]

I'm not pretending this will be easy. I never believed it would. But I believe the prize will be worth it. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I know Jack and Gill won't. Fair enough. We all have our views and they are all valid. None of us actually know. We all have our views too on how the future within the EU would have panned out. None of us know that either. It was a gamble either way.

I know you said you intended to keep out of it (I said that too, once!) so I'll understand if you don't respond.

What is the prize, and how much 'pain' do you think it's acceptable to go through to win the prize.

Everywhere I look, respected people are giving a negative view of our post Brexit life. I'm desperately trying to understand the Brexiter mindset - so please can you (or someone else) tell me where you get your beliefs from - what information are you reading to make you optimistic, or is it just based on faith?

Thank you

[oldbluefox]

"The immediate consequences of a “no deal” Brexit in March could be worse for the European Union than for Britain, senior Brussels figures have said".
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/no-d ... -9m0g7nr98
Be better all round if a deal could be struck then. Tell Barnier to stop b*****ing around and negotiate instead of dismissing everything out of hand.

We have to give our negotiating team a kick up the backside too and come up with something that the EU wouldn't dismiss out of hand.

I don't disagree - Alleluya!!!!

[Ray Scully]

- what information are you reading to make you optimistic, or is it just based on faith?

Thank you
[/quote]


Blind faith ???

[barney]

The very simple truth is that nobody knows what the future holds.
Be it outside of the EU or even if we had remained in it.
My opinion is that the Project Fear that lost the vote has simply gone up a gear.
Nobody can categorically say that things will be better or things will be worse.
Things will be different. That's the only given.
It kind of depends wht press you read.

The Guardian and the Independent try to link Brexit to any given story. always in a negative manner.
The BBC and Sky are very much pro remain and always have been. That cannot be disputed, so their stories are generally this COULD happen ot that COULD happen.
Anything COULD happen.
The Turkish crisis COULD see them lauching the three million refugees that they are holding back onto Europe.
I'm not saying that they will, I'm saying that they COULD.
Irish beef COULD go up by 82%
Well, then don't buy Irish beef.
We COULD run out of sandwich fillings (last week's story) Whooperdeedoo.

The bottom line is that the 'media' loves a crisis and if there isn't one, they will do their best to create it.
They have 24 hour news and have got to atlk about something.

I was chuckling about the latest poll today saying that 112 constituancies have ' changed their mind'
When the constituancy arguement was used by Leave, we were told that was irrelevant.
Now, because their data has slightly changed, it's a news story.
Go figure that one out.
Extrapolation of figures is scarily unreliable.
If it was true, we would all be dead by now of Aids, Ebola, Swine Flu, Bird Flu or some other disease that they said was going to get us all.
The only poll that counts was the referendum in 2016.
If you don't like that result and the decision to leave the EU, then campaign to join the EU at the next election.

I have a friend who works in the City.
He' does pretty well for himself financially.
His company said that they may operate a satellite office in Paris to negate the potential impact of Brexit and asked staff if they would consider a move there.
Not one single taker.
Why?
Because the City is booming and creating thousands of new jobs.
Why?
Because London is where it's at.
There is no project fear in the City of London.
They are well ahead of the game.

It's a shame that this useless Government have not done the same.
At least the planning for a WTO exit has kicked into top gear and much of it is in place or ready, if necessary.
My SIL told me that rather than use the M20 for stack if necessary, they may close the M26 and use that as it has no junctions.
Good move in my opinion and will keep traffic flowing in Kent.
And, we'll have 39 billion to play with.

[oldbluefox]

I'm not pretending this will be easy. I never believed it would. But I believe the prize will be worth it. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I know Jack and Gill won't. Fair enough. We all have our views and they are all valid. None of us actually know. We all have our views too on how the future within the EU would have panned out. None of us know that either. It was a gamble either way.

I know you said you intended to keep out of it (I said that too, once!) so I'll understand if you don't respond.

What is the prize, and how much 'pain' do you think it's acceptable to go through to win the prize.

Everywhere I look, respected people are giving a negative view of our post Brexit life. I'm desperately trying to understand the Brexiter mindset - so please can you (or someone else) tell me where you get your beliefs from - what information are you reading to make you optimistic, or is it just based on faith?

Thank you

The reasons (some of them) why I voted for Brexit:
To decide for ourselves who comes into the country and who doesn't as opposed to the EU idea of open borders
To no longer be subject to the rulings of the ECJ
Fishermen to reclaim fishing grounds
To trade with other countries especially the Commonwealth without interference from Brussels
To avoid becoming part of a Federal Europe
To avoid our defence forces being subsumed as part of a Federal Force
To get away from the extravagance of the EU which seems to think it is justifiable to spend millions every month in moving the government for a few days to Strasburg
and there are plenty more here:

https://www.capitalandconflict.com/brex ... -leave-eu/
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/br ... 04016.html
https://www.vox.com/2016/6/22/11992106/brexit-arguments

I have no problem with trading with Europe or having Europeans coming into the country. Neither is there any desire to send them all back (another lie from Project Fear). The Eastern Europeans I have come across have been a breath of fresh air, personally speaking. Fruit pickers will still be able to come over and ply their trade so all this nonsense about preventing them post Brexit is just that.

I trust that goes some way in a nutshell to helping you understand the Brexit mindset from my own perspective.

[barney]

What I find bizarre foxy is that some think that the day after we leave the EU (NOT EUROPE) we will cut off all communication with the continent.
Everything will immediately change.
It will be apocalyptic.
No one will speak to us.
No one will want to buy British goods.
They will not sell us their goods out of spite.
The shops will be empty.
People will be hoarding and rioting.
We won't be allowed to travel.
The end of the world as we know it.

The reality is that we will wake up on 1st April next year and life will go on, we just won't be a member of the EU anymore.
A bit like 160 + other countries.

[Gill W]

The very simple truth is that nobody knows what the future holds.
Be it outside of the EU or even if we had remained in it.
My opinion is that the Project Fear that lost the vote has simply gone up a gear.
Nobody can categorically say that things will be better or things will be worse.
Things will be different. That's the only given.
It kind of depends wht press you read.

The Guardian and the Independent try to link Brexit to any given story. always in a negative manner.
The BBC and Sky are very much pro remain and always have been. That cannot be disputed, so their stories are generally this COULD happen ot that COULD happen.
Anything COULD happen.
The Turkish crisis COULD see them lauching the three million refugees that they are holding back onto Europe.
I'm not saying that they will, I'm saying that they COULD.
Irish beef COULD go up by 82%
Well, then don't buy Irish beef.
We COULD run out of sandwich fillings (last week's story) Whooperdeedoo.

The bottom line is that the 'media' loves a crisis and if there isn't one, they will do their best to create it.
They have 24 hour news and have got to atlk about something.

I was chuckling about the latest poll today saying that 112 constituancies have ' changed their mind'
When the constituancy arguement was used by Leave, we were told that was irrelevant.
Now, because their data has slightly changed, it's a news story.
Go figure that one out.
Extrapolation of figures is scarily unreliable.
If it was true, we would all be dead by now of Aids, Ebola, Swine Flu, Bird Flu or some other disease that they said was going to get us all.
The only poll that counts was the referendum in 2016.
If you don't like that result and the decision to leave the EU, then campaign to join the EU at the next election.

I have a friend who works in the City.
He' does pretty well for himself financially.
His company said that they may operate a satellite office in Paris to negate the potential impact of Brexit and asked staff if they would consider a move there.
Not one single taker.
Why?
Because the City is booming and creating thousands of new jobs.
Why?
Because London is where it's at.
There is no project fear in the City of London.
They are well ahead of the game.

It's a shame that this useless Government have not done the same.
At least the planning for a WTO exit has kicked into top gear and much of it is in place or ready, if necessary.
My SIL told me that rather than use the M20 for stack if necessary, they may close the M26 and use that as it has no junctions.
Good move in my opinion and will keep traffic flowing in Kent.
And, we'll have 39 billion to play with.

Barney, I try not to only read the main stream papers. When you are on Twitter, you have access to all sorts of people like international trade experts, who explain in clear terms what trade will look like in a post Brexit no deal world - and it is not encouraging.

I've noticed that the Brexiters like to keep hold of the referendum result as an article of their faith. Notwithstanding the fact that the referendum was advisory only, and Vote Leave broke electorial law, I think we need to move on from the referendum, and address the situation we are in now, not what we thought Brexit might be like two years ago. A no deal Brexit would, in all probability throw up a load of problems that would affect our day to day life. I've observed that a lot of Brexiters either don't want to even think about what could happen, or are convinced that there will be no problems at all.

Brexiters also like to mention Project Fear a lot - and forget that the Leave Campaign was Project Fantasy.

Your friend might believe that the City is booming, but, some city bosses have said many jobs will be lost.

Another thing I've observed is that Brexiters have gone from 'it'll be the easiest deal in history' to 'No deal Brexit, bring it on'.

Which brings me back to the question I asked - why are Brexiters so sure everything will be hunky dory? I appreciate your reply Barney, and what I've gathered from your reply is that it's about faith.

[oldbluefox]

Me too barney but this is what the Remain camp are putting out and it's all lies. Life will go on, just as it did after the referendum vote - and Gillingham will still be in League One!!!

[Ray Scully]

The reality is that we will wake up on 1st April next year and life will go on, we just won't be a member of the EU anymore.
A bit like 160 + other countries.

The vast majority of whom have a GDP less than Manchester

[Gill W]

I'm not pretending this will be easy. I never believed it would. But I believe the prize will be worth it. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I know Jack and Gill won't. Fair enough. We all have our views and they are all valid. None of us actually know. We all have our views too on how the future within the EU would have panned out. None of us know that either. It was a gamble either way.

I know you said you intended to keep out of it (I said that too, once!) so I'll understand if you don't respond.

What is the prize, and how much 'pain' do you think it's acceptable to go through to win the prize.

Everywhere I look, respected people are giving a negative view of our post Brexit life. I'm desperately trying to understand the Brexiter mindset - so please can you (or someone else) tell me where you get your beliefs from - what information are you reading to make you optimistic, or is it just based on faith?

Thank you

The reasons (some of them) why I voted for Brexit:
To decide for ourselves who comes into the country and who doesn't as opposed to the EU idea of open borders
To no longer be subject to the rulings of the ECJ
Fishermen to reclaim fishing grounds
To trade with other countries especially the Commonwealth without interference from Brussels
To avoid becoming part of a Federal Europe
To avoid our defence forces being subsumed as part of a Federal Force
To get away from the extravagance of the EU which seems to think it is justifiable to spend millions every month in moving the government for a few days to Strasburg
and there are plenty more here:

https://www.capitalandconflict.com/brex ... -leave-eu/
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/br ... 04016.html
https://www.vox.com/2016/6/22/11992106/brexit-arguments

I have no problem with trading with Europe or having Europeans coming into the country. Neither is there any desire to send them all back (another lie from Project Fear). The Eastern Europeans I have come across have been a breath of fresh air, personally speaking. Fruit pickers will still be able to come over and ply their trade so all this nonsense about preventing them post Brexit is just that.

I trust that goes some way in a nutshell to helping you understand the Brexit mindset from my own perspective.

I appreciete your reply, and I respect your reason for your vote.

However, at this point, we still seem a long way from getting the sort of deal that will achieve all that.

I haven't read in full the links you have provided, and will come back to it later, but I noticed that two of them were two years old. As new information becomes available, should we not review our reasoning, rather than rely on something that is two years old? I noted that the other report was dated this year, and, as I say, will read it later, but from my initial look, I couldn't see if it mentioned in practical terms how a deal and transition would be achieved, with no disruption.

I'm still not clear on what basis Brexiters believe everything will be fine after Brexit, other than faith

[barney]

Would it surprise you to know that the GDP of the UK is in excess of the bottom 20 EU countries Ray. And that is why our taxes are subsidising them. I'd prefer that our tax money is spent here. Just saying like.

[Stephen]

Year 2000, oh look the world hasn't ended after all.

The deed has been done with regard the vote and exiting the EU. Live with it or move on because it ain't gonna change.

[Gill W]

What I find bizarre foxy is that some think that the day after we leave the EU (NOT EUROPE) we will cut off all communication with the continent.
Everything will immediately change.
It will be apocalyptic.
No one will speak to us.
No one will want to buy British goods.
They will not sell us their goods out of spite.
The shops will be empty.
People will be hoarding and rioting.
We won't be allowed to travel.
The end of the world as we know it.

The reality is that we will wake up on 1st April next year and life will go on, we just won't be a member of the EU anymore.
A bit like 160 + other countries.

I'm not so sure that's what people are thinking.

What they are doing is asking, in the event of a no deal Brexit, how is everything going to work. And, given the fact that we haven't got the foggiest idea of what is going to happen, there is precious little time for everything to be put into place to be working smoothly by March, especially if we 'crash out'.

I really hope we get a deal - then there can be some breathing space until the end of 2020. But if there's a no deal, I for one, can't see how everything is just going to carry on as normal. No deal, no transition. I don't understand why some think it'll be business as normal in that scenario

[Ray Scully]

Would it surprise you to know that the GDP of the UK is in excess of the bottom 20 EU countries Ray. And that is why our taxes are subsidising them. I'd prefer that our tax money is spent here. Just saying like.

No Barney it doesn't surprise me. and as far as the second part, well obviously we have differing philosophy's

[Gill W]

Year 2000, oh look the world hasn't ended after all.

The deed has been done with regard the vote and exiting the EU. Live with it or move on because it ain't gonna change.

1000's of people worked for several years to deal with the millenium bug

We've now got just under seven months to deal with something on an even larger scale, and we don't yet know the terms on which we are leaving. The world is not ending, but people need to be talking about this, instead of trotting out the same old 'you lost deal with it comments'.

[Golden Princess]

Wow - now I am extremely worried by you guys on here supporting Brexit.

You are stocking up your freezers? Why? What is going to happen? What is going to become of us?

We should be quite happy for NI, Scotland and Wales to leave the UK so they can remain in the EU?? Will we need visas to visit family/friends/holiday in NI, Scotland, Wales? How long before there has to be a "wall" built? How will we trade with these separate countries? How long will the queues be?


How long is it going to take ( years? - I heard that Jacob Rees Moggs said 50) before we (? - who?) see any benefits?

I thought you guys wanted Brexit. What on earth do you want it for?

[Golden Princess]

OMG! Posted above before I even saw page 27!!!

Still not got time to read it! I have other things to do!

BUT .... It is ok to get rid of NI, Scotland and Wales as they are of no financial benefit to us!!!!!!

I really cannot believe some of the things I am reading on this thread.

Lets get rid of anyone who is a financial burden on us, Shall we? Why not? Where shall we start? Poor? unemployed? retired? Ill? any one over 60? Any one with cancer? Art? Culture? Libraries? Museums? Dont what anyone being a financial burden now do we.

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm not pretending this will be easy. I never believed it would. But I believe the prize will be worth it. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I know Jack and Gill won't. Fair enough. We all have our views and they are all valid. None of us actually know. We all have our views too on how the future within the EU would have panned out. None of us know that either. It was a gamble either way.

I know you said you intended to keep out of it (I said that too, once!) so I'll understand if you don't respond.

What is the prize, and how much 'pain' do you think it's acceptable to go through to win the prize.

Everywhere I look, respected people are giving a negative view of our post Brexit life. I'm desperately trying to understand the Brexiter mindset - so please can you (or someone else) tell me where you get your beliefs from - what information are you reading to make you optimistic, or is it just based on faith?

Thank you

I'm not planning to get into an argument with you Gill because you are entitled to your beliefs. As I am mine.

What I will say is this. That there are also equally respected people giving a positive view of Brexit. They are just as credible as those you listen to. There are also idiots on both sides. It's who you choose to believe, the same as which newspaper you choose to believe. In fact the newspapers will of course only bother to quote those who back their position.

I've stated clearly before what I see as the problems with staying in the EU. And Foxy has quoted pretty much what I also see as the benefits of getting out.

There is no right answer. But for me we've given the EU long enough to deal with their short comings. But they've ignored us and continue headlong down the path of ever closer union clinging to their four principles without recognising the problems they create. I'm ready to try a different way.

[towny44]

Year 2000, oh look the world hasn't ended after all.

The deed has been done with regard the vote and exiting the EU. Live with it or move on because it ain't gonna change.

1000's of people worked for several years to deal with the millenium bug

We've now got just under seven months to deal with something on an even larger scale, and we don't yet know the terms on which we are leaving. The world is not ending, but people need to be talking about this, instead of trotting out the same old 'you lost deal with it comments'.

Indeed they did Gill and our IT specialists sold us the need to buy in a new system from Europe's largest software company because their system was already millennium proof. Only for us to have to work extra hard to install the many patches they had to produce to make it work properly. And then guess what, our old bespoke system functioned perfectly on our test system over the millennium.

[Jack Staff]

Indeed they did Gill and our IT specialists sold us the need to buy in a new system from Europe's largest software company because their system was already millennium proof. Only for us to have to work extra hard to install the many patches they had to produce to make it work properly. And then guess what, our old bespoke system functioned perfectly on our test system over the millennium.

SAP?

[barney]

OMG! Posted above before I even saw page 27!!!

Still not got time to read it! I have other things to do!

BUT .... It is ok to get rid of NI, Scotland and Wales as they are of no financial benefit to us!!!!!!

I really cannot believe some of the things I am reading on this thread.

Lets get rid of anyone who is a financial burden on us, Shall we? Why not? Where shall we start? Poor? unemployed? retired? Ill? any one over 60? Any one with cancer? Art? Culture? Libraries? Museums? Dont what anyone being a financial burden now do we.

Wow! calm down dear !
Nobody is suggesting getting rid of anybody. with reference to the UK countries, what was actually inferred was that democracy should rule, as it did in the EU referendum.
IF, the good folk of NI, Wales & Scotland decided to go their own way, who are we to stand in the way of it.
If I may say so, that is a typical over reaction that we see so much of these days.
Comments like this are the exact reason why I avoid Facebook & Twitter.

[Golden Princess]

But you have not answered any one of my points of concern ................

I am really not interested in whether or not you do Facebook or Twitter.

Any concerns I had have only been exacerbated by reading the comments of you supposedly (I guess) guys who support Brexit.

So tell me, why are you stocking your freezers ..........................................

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm not. I believe that response was a reply to remainer hysteria that we are going to run out of food post Brexit.

[Jack Staff]

I'm not. I believe that response was a reply to remainer hysteria that we are going to run out of food post Brexit.

Yeah that hysterical National Farmers Union....

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... rmers-warn?

[Onelife]

But you have not answered any one of my points of concern ................

I am really not interested in whether or not you do Facebook or Twitter.

Any concerns I had have only been exacerbated by reading the comments of you supposedly (I guess) guys who support Brexit.

So tell me, why are you stocking your freezers ..........................................

Hi Princess,

My freezer intervention only arose because l didn't want Jack going short of frozen goods should in the unlikely event we opt for a clean break from those who brought brexit about..aka Juncker etc

Should a clean break ensue then l do forsee shortages in food supplies, inevitable until European exporters put pressure on their masters to introduce workable tariffs acceptable on both sides of the channel.

Btw Jack, you haven't thanked me for giving you the heads up about Bicold

Regards

Keith