Brexit

[Mervyn and Trish]

A report I read yesterday suggested Italy is in the wings to be next to leave. The anti EU sentiment is strong there as they are also shackled by the Euro and have dreadful unemployment.

[barney]

I was reading an article by a guy who thinks that he may have come up with a compromise to the Irish Backstop issue in the event of no deal.

Why not have a referendum ?

The people of Northern Ireland could be asked the question.

a vote on whether to

Stay in a Customs Union with Ireland, for trade purposes, thus negating a border with Ireland but putting one up with the rest of the UK
Or
To leave the Customs Union with the rest of the UK with the potential for a border of some description in Ireland.

Very simple, tick a box and the majority wins.

Why not asked those most affected what they actually want ?

[Jack Staff]

This will throw the cat amongst the pigeons should Brexit be delayed.

What fun!
After trashing our own country we can go ahead and trash a continent.

I wonder who could possibly benefit from that happening, hmmmmmmm.

[barney]

A report I read yesterday suggested Italy is in the wings to be next to leave. The anti EU sentiment is strong there as they are also shackled by the Euro and have dreadful unemployment.

I fear that Italy may be in too deep, debt wise, to really consider such a thing.
A bit like Greece was.
We are in a unique position of being outside of the Eurozone, so it's a lot easier.

There is a lot on anti EU sentiment across Europe at the moment, as the European Parliament elections will show.

Not that this makes much difference to how the EU operate.
The Commission make the decisions, not the Parliament.
That is just a talking shop and is there to ratify what the commission has decided.

[barney]

This will throw the cat amongst the pigeons should Brexit be delayed.

What fun!
After trashing our own country we can go ahead and trash a continent.

I wonder who could possibly benefit from that happening, hmmmmmmm.

Democracy Jack !
Remember that ?
They ask you to vote, and should accept the result.
If they don't want to know what the people of Europe think, then don't ask them.
It's not like they take any notice anyway.

[Manoverboard]

I was reading an article by a guy who thinks that he may have come up with a compromise to the Irish Backstop issue .....

… and I was hearing about a software solution to the backstop situation, tis based on a system used in Sweden I believe.

[Jack Staff]

… and I was hearing about a software solution to the backstop situation, tis based on a system used in Sweden I believe.

I thought you were against freedom of movement?

[towny44]

This will throw the cat amongst the pigeons should Brexit be delayed.

What fun!
After trashing our own country we can go ahead and trash a continent.

I wonder who could possibly benefit from that happening, hmmmmmmm.

Not trashing it Jack, this should be about repairing it and giving control back to nation states and abolishing the commission.

[Manoverboard]

… and I was hearing about a software solution to the backstop situation, tis based on a system used in Sweden I believe.

I thought you were against freedom of movement?

I understood that it was a software solution to the control of goods rather than people.

ps … for the record I am not against ' freedom of movement ' providing we ( the UK ) dictate the terms of that movement.

[barney]

… and I was hearing about a software solution to the backstop situation, tis based on a system used in Sweden I believe.

I thought you were against freedom of movement?

The Common Travel Area between Ireland and the UK long precedes both joining the EU, Jack, and will continue after we have left.

Back in the day, when football clubs had a quota of 'foreign players' the Irish player were never included in this.

I'm against the EU freedom of movement bill, because it actually means not only freedom of movement but freedom to live and work, without any control by the recipient country.
Then on top of that, because of EU equality laws, any EU citizen cannot be discriminated against regarding any benefits.
What that actually means is that any EU worker has the same rights as any UK worker, irrespective of whether they have contributed or not.
That is what sparked the influx under Blair.
Any highly qualified person could come here and take any low paid job, safe in the knowledge that the UK taxpayer would top it up under working benefits.

What they have done in Malta to combat this EU law, is time limited anybody to unemployment benefit.
That includes Maltese nationals.
Six months is the maximum you can claim unemployment benefit and after that, you're on your own.
No more. Nada. Nowt.
Imagine if we did that here. The outrage!
They also have no in work benefits but still attract many eastern Europeans, because it's still better than where they come from.

I'm still convinced that had the EU cut Cameron a bit of slack when he asked, this would have all been avoided.
But they couldn't bring themselves to do it.
Delusuions of grandeur and power overtook reasoning.
They felt that they had to assert to the memebr 'States (Countries)' that they were in control, and to some degree, they still think that they are, although the penny is starting to drop now.

Brexit has made insignificant politicians like Tusk & Juncker into well know 'stars' around the world.
They should thank Farage for that.

[Onelife]

… and I was hearing about a software solution to the backstop situation, tis based on a system used in Sweden I believe.

I thought you were against freedom of movement?

I understood that it was a software solution to the control of goods rather than peopl

ps … for the record I am not against ' freedom of movement ' providing we ( the UK ) dictate the terms of that movement.

And so say all of us?....well that's my position Mob

[Jack Staff]

I understood that it was a software solution to the control of goods rather than people.

ps … for the record I am not against ' freedom of movement ' providing we ( the UK ) dictate the terms of that movement.

Norway is in Schengen, fine by me, but not with Brexiters.
Norway is also in the EEA. It is in the single market but not the customs union.

So ruled out by Brexiters.

[Manoverboard]

All well and good but my original posting related to software and Sweden.

[Jack Staff]

All well and good but my original posting related to software and Sweden.

Yes. There is no purpose in backstop software without it involving another country/state/union. I naturally assumed you meant Norway. Otherwise your post was pointless.

[barney]

I understood that it was a software solution to the control of goods rather than people.

ps … for the record I am not against ' freedom of movement ' providing we ( the UK ) dictate the terms of that movement.

Norway is in Schengen, fine by me, but not with Brexiters.
Norway is also in the EEA. It is in the single market but not the customs union.

So ruled out by Brexiters.

Norway can do what they like Jack.
it is of no consequence to the UK.

Norway's GDP is about $400 billion
The UK's GDP is about $2.6 trillion

For me, Schengen is not fine, EEA is not fine either. Or the Customs Union.
I want our country to be independent for all of these constricting arrangements.

I think we should and will make trade deals with pretty much anyone who wants to do one with us, and that will include the EU, Japan, South Korea etc.
But if they don't, then that's ok as well.

[Manoverboard]

All well and good but my original posting related to software and Sweden.

Yes. There is no purpose in backstop software without it involving another country/state/union. I naturally assumed you meant Norway. Otherwise your post was pointless.

Dooh

The ' point ' is the connection between the software presently being used in Sweden that could be further developed by the UK to solve the backstop situation between the UK and the EU / Ireland. It's funny how you refuse to acknowledge any positive point relating to our imminent departure from the EU.

Never mind you'll get used to it soon enough.



.

[Jack Staff]

Dooh

The ' point ' is the connection between the software presently being used in Sweden that could be further developed by the UK to solve the backstop situation between the UK and the EU / Ireland. It's funny how you refuse to acknowledge any positive point relating to our imminent departure from the EU.

Never mind you'll get used to it soon enough.

Just one would be nice.

[towny44]

Dooh

The ' point ' is the connection between the software presently being used in Sweden that could be further developed by the UK to solve the backstop situation between the UK and the EU / Ireland. It's funny how you refuse to acknowledge any positive point relating to our imminent departure from the EU.

Never mind you'll get used to it soon enough.

Just one would be nice.

Jack, you do have a tiresome attitude.

[oldbluefox]

I've seen happier Huddersfield Town supporters!!!

[Jack Staff]

Well I'm perfectly happy!
I have something to look forward to.
Brexiter 'no dealers' have the responsibility of their upcoming debacle on their shoulders for the next fifty years (Farage) or one hundred years (Digby Jones).
Brexiter 'Theresas' have years of negotiations to look forward to. All the time being blamed for the mess by 'no dealers' and remainers.

[Onelife]

Well I'm perfectly happy!
I have something to look forward to.
Brexiter 'no dealers' have the responsibility of their upcoming debacle on their shoulders for the next fifty years (Farage) or one hundred years (Digby Jones).
Brexiter 'Theresas' have years of negotiations to look forward to. All the time being blamed for the mess by 'no dealers' and remainers.

I can't speak for others Jack, but l have never been under any illusion that our fully negotiated departure would be completed within the two year transition period, however, l do think we will have up and running mutually beneficial trading arrangements in place by the end of this period.

What we all need to remember is....whether it be Theresa's deal or a no deal we will be leaving the EU... but doing it in a way that allows us time to adjust and expand our trading options has to be the sensible way forward thick is why remainers should be backing Theresa.

Looking forward to being happy about the direction you think Brexit will take this country sounds more like sour grapes to me......but l'll let you off on that one cos you didn't mean it did you Jack?

Keep smiling

Keith

[Jack Staff]

I can't speak for others Jack, but l ....

Thank you Keith for actually trying to engage Keith. It makes a refreshing change on here.
Our "fully negotiated...." may be completed within two years (doubtful on the evidence of the last two) but what about the deal with Japan, Canada, US, Australia....... , we simply don't have the negotiators because we haven't needed them for forty years. Others have fully up to speed people who will decimate our team, led by D.F.D.S. Dr. Fox. Negotiations will continue for decades, to try and return to what we had via the EU. Makes no sense.

No deal is simply not an option, so yes of course I prefer TM the PM's deal. But it is still a great loss. Some would say I worry too much about the economics, but the reality is that economics means the health service, the homeless, our standing in the world, food.

You are correct, I didn't mean that. I simply meant that my way (remain) stands a better chance of 'winning' than certainly no deal and I still believe will actually beat Theresa as well. Even if we do leave, it will not be long before we rejoin. That's why I am still happy.
So no I did not mean I was looking forward to Brexiters suffering when they 'won', as I would be suffering as well.

To be clear I do not think anyone will 'win' out of Brexit, even if it stopped tomorrow (excepting foreign powers and their UK stooges).

[towny44]

Jack, you really are a worrier and a glass half empty one as well, my glass half full persona suggests that any economic pain will be so slight and gradual as to be hardly worth considering, and you certainly don't need to worry about politicians being cannon fodder for foreign power negotiators, our civil servant always have run the country and will continue to do the leg work, and whilst they complain and grumble about being understaffed, that will only be their next wage claim negotiating ploy.
Look on the bright side Jack, you could be an Italian, Spanish, Greek or Portuguese unemployed under 30 something, instead of a privileged member of the great United Kingdom.

[Onelife]

I can't speak for others Jack, but l ....

Thank you Keith for actually trying to engage Keith. It makes a refreshing change on here.
Our "fully negotiated...." may be completed within two years (doubtful on the evidence of the last two) but what about the deal with Japan, Canada, US, Australia....... , we simply don't have the negotiators because we haven't needed them for forty years. Others have fully up to speed people who will decimate our team, led by D.F.D.S. Dr. Fox. Negotiations will continue for decades, to try and return to what we had via the EU. Makes no sense.

No deal is simply not an option, so yes of course I prefer TM the PM's deal. But it is still a great loss. Some would say I worry too much about the economics, but the reality is that economics means the health service, the homeless, our standing in the world, food.

You are correct, I didn't mean that. I simply meant that my way (remain) stands a better chance of 'winning' than certainly no deal and I still believe will actually beat Theresa as well. Even if we do leave, it will not be long before we rejoin. That's why I am still happy.
So no I did not mean I was looking forward to Brexiters suffering when they 'won', as I would be suffering as well.

To be clear I do not think anyone will 'win' out of Brexit, even if it stopped tomorrow (excepting foreign powers and their UK stooges).

Hi Jack,

This past two years have been a sharp learning curve and will no doubt be an even more daunting one for those who may wish to follow in our footsteps...but this situation is what it is and we have to find a way through it.....For better or for worse history will be our judge but to have never tried is to accept what is wrong.

I'm not to worried about our negotiating skills as we won't find ourselves in the same negotiating position we have been in with the EU who didn't want to negotiate because they didn't want us to leave....We will in effect be starting from a relatively level playing field when it comes to negotiating trade deals in a global market place.

[Ranchi]

If the politicians had come out on 24th June 2016 waving a document and stating ‘We have a great deal for the UK’ Would there have been 91 pages covering a period 2+ years claiming we have capitulated & should have got a better deal? Is it any surprise that negotiations have been so protracted...after all there are a lot of staff to pay.