Brexit

[Gill W]

I note there has been very little comment about the march/protests on Friday.

Both of the massive Remain marches passed off peacefully, but were subject to much sneering from forum members.

Yet, no sneering at the Leave marchers - I must conclude that marching is ok if the cause is something the forum majority support.

I also note there been no condemnation of the way it descended into a drunken, threatening mob.

It's not rocket science that Brexit has emboldened the extreme right wing - but to see them out on the streets is not a pleasant sight. Even if Brexit had gone ahead on Friday, and this had been a 'victory' march, I feel quite sure that the end result would have been the same. They are out of their boxes now, and they aren't going to go back in.

The problem for the forum majority is that they have positioned themselves on your side of the debate. I have been surprised that you haven't all
publicly distanced yourselves from them.

I have not heard anything about a drunken threatening mob, and I am sure the BBC would have given it high prominence if it had been as bad as you state.

You need to look beyond the BBC.

[Gill W]

Gill, as you know, I'm no fan of the right wing, be it Tory or far right, but what happened on Friday and what is likely to happen in the future is wholly predictable given what has happened. I think that the protest was the forerunner of what will go down in the future. I hope that I'm wrong, but the far right were just waiting for this opportunity as they have been all across Europe. Thank god we don't have PR or they would have a lot more sway. Under PR, UKIP would have returned 82 MPs in the 2010 election.

I do agree- but think it’s strange that nobody on the forum is condemning them, when you consider what was said about peaceful remain marches

[barney]

Well, I'm certainly not condemning them for protesting. They have exactly the same right as those trying to overthrow democracy. As I said previously, this has tweaked the tail of the tiger. I don't think we have seen anything yet. I predict that streets will burn if parliament vote to revoke. Not nice, but a bit predictable. As I said, careful what you wish for.

[oldbluefox]

I also note there been no condemnation of the way it descended into a drunken, threatening mob.

Quote from The Independent:
"Five people have been arrested during the pro-Brexit demonstrations in central London on Friday, police said.
Two people were arrested on suspicion of assault, one on suspicion of being drunk and disorderly, and another on suspicion of assaulting a police officer.
A fifth person was arrested after being identified as wanted in Hertfordshire, the Metropolitan Police said.
“All are in custody,” the force said in a tweet".
Can you have a threatening, drunken mob of one?

[david63]

You must surely admit, their apparent decision to destroy such significant information seems a bit odd

I, like you, know not what data has been "destroyed" - if it was electronic then it probably has not been totally destroyed!

Under current GDPR rules you cannot retain data once it is no longer required for the purpose for which it was acquired - believe me I have read the GDPR rules from back to front on more than one occasion otherwise this board would not exist - who do you think wrote the Privacy Policy part of this board?

[Jack Staff]

Under current GDPR rules you cannot retain data once it is no longer required for the purpose for which it was acquired -

Some of the data originated from Arron Banks' Eldon Insurance company.
The whole of Vote Leave was rotten to the core.

[Gill W]

I also note there been no condemnation of the way it descended into a drunken, threatening mob.

Quote from The Independent:
"Five people have been arrested during the pro-Brexit demonstrations in central London on Friday, police said.
Two people were arrested on suspicion of assault, one on suspicion of being drunk and disorderly, and another on suspicion of assaulting a police officer.
A fifth person was arrested after being identified as wanted in Hertfordshire, the Metropolitan Police said.
“All are in custody,” the force said in a tweet".
Can you have a threatening, drunken mob of one?

So, the mob threatening journalists and passers by, the aggressive crowd that massed outside Downing Street, the one dragging round effigies of Theresa May and Sadiq Khan, and the twerp who climbed on top to the roof of St Pancras and stopped all the trains are all fine?

Well, I'm certainly not condemning them for protesting. They have exactly the same right as those trying to overthrow democracy. As I said previously, this has tweaked the tail of the tiger. I don't think we have seen anything yet. I predict that streets will burn if parliament vote to revoke. Not nice, but a bit predictable. As I said, careful what you wish for.

You were happy to snipe at the peaceful Remain protests, but won't condemn the bad behaviour of some of the Leave protestors.

I find that an odd stance. I'd have thought you'd have been keen to distance yourself from that group, as they are giving all Leavers a bad name.

I've also noticed that you continue to use provocative language, which is the sort of thing that stokes the fires of unrest.

[Gill W]

Under current GDPR rules you cannot retain data once it is no longer required for the purpose for which it was acquired -

Some of the data originated from Arron Banks' Eldon Insurance company.
The whole of Vote Leave was rotten to the core.

Don't expect any acknowledgement from the majority on this board - I've come to the conclusion they are physically incapable of criticising anything to do with Leave, no matter how bad it is.

[barney]

We all have a bit of hypocrisy in us, just as we all have a bit of racism. Probably the ultimate hypocrisy is the Independents who scream for another vote while denying their constituents the same privilege. See what I mean. Like most things, it works both ways. Deny the original result while calling for another vote. If the result once again went the same way, I'd bet that they would still be unable to accept it.

[barney]

Talking of hypocrites, did anyone catch John Major on Marr, when his pre referendum speach was played back to him.

[towny44]

Under current GDPR rules you cannot retain data once it is no longer required for the purpose for which it was acquired -

Some of the data originated from Arron Banks' Eldon Insurance company.
The whole of Vote Leave was rotten to the core.

Don't expect any acknowledgement from the majority on this board - I've come to the conclusion they are physically incapable of criticising anything to do with Leave, no matter how bad it is.

Gill, stop spreading untruths, plenty of leavers on here have criticised the handling of our brexit negotiations, some of us have said we would not want a no deal, but just like you will always be a remainer and feel that being in the EU is the best option for you, then we leavers feel that leaving the EU is the best option for us. In these circumstances I would always expect you to be supportive of the EU, so why can you not accept that we believe the opposite.
As for the most recent events, I personally think the protestor that caused the closure of St Pancras was an idiot, but I have not seen any news media report the level of violence that you have highlighted, and as I said before I am 100% certain that if it genuinely had happened then the BBC would have made it their lead story.
So will you please stop this idiotic crusade about the leave campaign being rotten to the core, and that all leavers are trying to stir up a riot to try and force the remainers to accept we should leave the EU immediately.
I want a reasonable negotiated withdrawal from the EU, but somehow the referendum majority does not seem to sit too well with our elected MPs, if you could just imagine how you would feel if the situation was reversed, then maybe you would appreciate why we feel badly let down.

[Gill W]

Towny, you clearly haven’t read what I said.

I never said the all Leavers are trying to stir up riots. I’ve acknowledged that the bad behaviour is only from some people who have attached themselves to the Leave campaign. However, for the life of me I can’t understand why no one on this forum is keen to distance themselves from their behaviour.

I also never said violence - what I’ve seen is aggression, threatening behaviour and stupidity

As you are relying on the BBC for your news, it’s no wonder you are not fully up to speed. Sadly, the BBC is not what it was. These days you need to dig a bit deeper and source information from multiple outlets. I’m a bit disappointed that you think what I’ve said is not genuine - I always post in good faith, and after all this time I’d have hoped that you’d know that.

Furthermore it is ridiculous to suggest that i’m on a crusade of some sort. I’m doing what you are doing - posting on an Internet forum.

If you don’t like my posts, don’t read them, but I’m not going to stop posting when I wish to do so

[Onelife]

Talking of hypocrites, did anyone catch John Major on Marr, when his pre referendum speach was played back to him.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=jo ... hn%2bmajor%

[towny44]

Towny, you clearly haven’t read what I said.

I never said the all Leavers are trying to stir up riots. I’ve acknowledged that the bad behaviour is only from some people who have attached themselves to the Leave campaign. However, for the life of me I can’t understand why no one on this forum is keen to distance themselves from their behaviour.
If the major news media don't report them we tend to consider that anything as extreme as the comments you read might just be overstated.
I also never said violence - what I’ve seen is aggression, threatening behaviour and stupidity

As you are relying on the BBC for your news, it’s no wonder you are not fully up to speed. Sadly, the BBC is not what it was. These days you need to dig a bit deeper and source information from multiple outlets.
Gill, I refer you to Foxy's post #5729 taken from the Independant, and whilst I agree the BBC is not what was it was, it has clearly shown itself to be very anti-brexit and would have jumped on anything like the comments you printed, which is why I suggest your sources, like a lot of information on Twitter, Facebook, Snapchat etc is probably fake news.
I’m a bit disappointed that you think what I’ve said is not genuine - I always post in good faith, and after all this time I’d have hoped that you’d know that.
Maybe in future you should restrict your news gathering to the more reliable news outlets.

Furthermore it is ridiculous to suggest that i’m on a crusade of some sort. I’m doing what you are doing - posting on an Internet forum.
Reading again lots of your irate posts, I think maybe I was too lenient calling them a crusade, your denigration of anything to do with leaving the EU is far more radical than a tame crusade.

If you don’t like my posts, don’t read them, but I’m not going to stop posting when I wish to do so
I don't like your posts but I will continue reading them and correcting your inaccuracies when I see them.

[Jack Staff]

Good one Towny! You nearly had me there, until I realised what day it was.

[Manoverboard]

For the record … I tried successfully not to watch any of the marches on either side of the Brexit divide.

[CaroleF]

Not wishing to enter in to an argument but there's a letter in today's Telegraph from a man who walked the final leg of the March to Leave. He says, "The calls of 'idiots', 'thickies' and 'racists' from pro-EU people on the bridges as we walked under en route still echo in my mind....the abuse continued as I walked along towards Parliament Square." There seems to be abuse coming from both sides - and I would condemn anyone who can't accept that people will have different views, different opinions and they must be respected. I do hate it when people are lumped together and called, 'idiots', 'stupid' or whatever, whichever side they are on, both are as bad as one another.

I voted Leave and would have no problem leaving without a deal but I respect the fact that some people view this idea with horror. My MP is also one of those who wants 'no deal' and my constituency voted Leave with a two thirds majority. That doesn't mean that I don't respect those who voted differently - one of my daughters did and even my husband - but we have been able to have sensible discussions without descending into any form of anger or hatred. It's a pity others can't do the same.

Carole

[Gill W]

Good one Towny! You nearly had me there, until I realised what day it was.

Yes must be a spoof !

Certain people on this forum litter their posts with incendiary language like sabateours and traitors, yet I'm the radical one!

[Gill W]

Not wishing to enter in to an argument but there's a letter in today's Telegraph from a man who walked the final leg of the March to Leave. He says, "The calls of 'idiots', 'thickies' and 'racists' from pro-EU people on the bridges as we walked under en route still echo in my mind....the abuse continued as I walked along towards Parliament Square." There seems to be abuse coming from both sides - and I would condemn anyone who can't accept that people will have different views, different opinions and they must be respected. I do hate it when people are lumped together and called, 'idiots', 'stupid' or whatever, whichever side they are on, both are as bad as one another.

I voted Leave and would have no problem leaving without a deal but I respect the fact that some people view this idea with horror. My MP is also one of those who wants 'no deal' and my constituency voted Leave with a two thirds majority. That doesn't mean that I don't respect those who voted differently - one of my daughters did and even my husband - but we have been able to have sensible discussions without descending into any form of anger or hatred. It's a pity others can't do the same.

Carole

You are absolutely right of course - both sides should be willing to listen to each other without name calling and abuse.

I am more than happy to talk to anyone without all the emotive language that flies around and discuss things sensibly and calmly - for example, on this forum, I think Annie and myself have kept things things pleasant between us.

But others on this forum have not been willing to moderate the tone of their posts, hence, periodic spells when it 'kicks off'. However, I have pulled my punches on several occasions, because I know that it would make things even worse.

I've been referred to personally as a saboteur and today I'm apparently an anti Brexit radical.
But, for the sake of peace on the forum I will not respond in the same vein.

[Manoverboard]

Not wishing to enter in to an argument but there's a letter in today's Telegraph from a man who walked the final leg of the March to Leave. He says, "The calls of 'idiots', 'thickies' and 'racists' from pro-EU people on the bridges as we walked under en route still echo in my mind....the abuse continued as I walked along towards Parliament Square." There seems to be abuse coming from both sides …

I mentioned above that I chose not to watch any of the marches but I didn't mention that I have seen quite a number of marches and protests, albeit mainly on the TV, over a period of many years. My impression of such events is that they have historically included a high number of easily led, benefit claiming, brain dead unwashed layabouts. It was also the case that the same folk could be spotted in many if not all of the protests … hence the evolution of the term ' rent-a-mob ' !!!

With these thoughts as a background I am not at all surprised at the abuse … the people involved are simply not respected by the population as a whole and are seen as being selfish trouble makers who care only for their own life choices.

Just an honest opinion ….

[barney]

To be fair Moby, the 'million' Remain protesters were mainly white, middle aged and middle class.
There seemed to be the odd smattering on young person in there somewhere, but basically, it was a bit like a P&O cruise , that is , God's waiting room.

Certainly not your usual rent-a-mob

More like rent-a-blue rinse

[Jack Staff]

Why are you deciding who was on the march, when there are a number of forum members who were actually there?

I suppose we are BBC biased, diesel engined fake news.

[oldbluefox]

Why are you deciding who was on the march, when there are a number of forum members who were actually there?

I suppose we are BBC biased, diesel engined fake news.

I can think of two and you're right, two is a number.

[Jack Staff]

Why are you deciding who was on the march, when there are a number of forum members who were actually there?

I suppose we are BBC biased, diesel engined fake news.

I can think of two and you're right, two is a number.

Well that just shows how ill informed you are. I myself met with another member, and no, it was not Gill.

[barney]

Why are you deciding who was on the march, when there are a number of forum members who were actually there?

I suppose we are BBC biased, diesel engined fake news.

Not at all Jack !

I have a pair of eyes in my head and it was very well covered by the main stream media.

Unless, they had some very clever camera angles, it looked to all the world as a predominantly white, middle aged and middle class march.

I'm not knocking that at all. The turnout was unbelievable.

They even had a coach departing from the busy metropolis of Bideford.
Those poor souls have been out there in all weather giving leaflets to anyone who cared to take one.
I admire their tenacity.
Blowed if I'd do it!