Brexit

[Onelife]

I’m just hoping that once we leave with Theresa’s deal all this blame game stuff will cease…. Let’s face it the Remainer saboteurs have done enough damage to the UK without carrying it on for the next couple of years.

Par for the course.

On the one hand saying that you hope the blame game will cease. Yet in the very next sentence, dishing out blame.

Basically, I'm turning around things that Leavers have said on this board. Some Leavers here have blamed Remainers for where we are now. If it's ridiculous for you to own what's going to happen, then it's equally as ridiculous for me to be blamed for what's happened.

Why have you never jumped on anybody saying that Remainers are to blame for all this?

Because the truth hurts ?

Then, in your very next post you double down on the blame.

Don't be a hypocrite - if you want the blame game to stop, play your part in it, and stop dishing it out.

06 Apr 2019 09:23



"I’m just hoping that once we leave with Theresa’s deal all this blame game stuff will cease"

[Gill W]

Why have you never jumped on anybody saying that Remainers are to blame for all this?

Why should I do that ?

As a Member of this Board I basically think that if the ' Remainers ' had accepted the outcome of the vote in 2016 and not set off on a crusade to overturn the result then we probably wouldn't be in this mess although negotiating an exit from the EU was never going to be easy nor would it be possible to please everybody.

As a Moderator it is not, nor should it be, my role to delete / amend postings that are at variance with another Members beliefs, preferences or convictions regarding Brexit. If a Member steps over the line the matter is dealt with but you won't be told about it.

I don't know why you feel the need to bring up being a moderator? It's nothing to do with that, I was speaking to you, the person, not the moderator.

It seems to me that you are saying, that, if Remainers shut up about the lies the Leave campaign told, the lawbreaking of the Leave campaign,and the ineptitude of the Government minsters and the fact that we have the worst PM in history, everything would have been fine? What about all the Leavers - would they have miraculously agreed on what sort of Brexit they wanted and would have negotiated the perfect deal which resolved all the problems with the Irish border? I doubt it.

But, according to you its ridiculous for Leavers to be responsible for anything that's happened, yet Remainers are responsible for everything.

At best, that's a double standard.

[Gill W]

I’m just hoping that once we leave with Theresa’s deal all this blame game stuff will cease…. Let’s face it the Remainer saboteurs have done enough damage to the UK without carrying it on for the next couple of years.

Par for the course.

On the one hand saying that you hope the blame game will cease. Yet in the very next sentence, dishing out blame.

Because the truth hurts ?

Then, in your very next post you double down on the blame.

Don't be a hypocrite - if you want the blame game to stop, play your part in it, and stop dishing it out.

06 Apr 2019 09:23



"I’m just hoping that once we leave with Theresa’s deal all this blame game stuff will cease"

Since we are unlikely ever to leave with Theresa's deal, you are saying that you think you'll be able to play the blame game with impunity until the end of time. Right, we've got that straight. But don't be upset or surprised when I throw it back at you, whenever I feel like it

[Ray Scully]

[/quote]

One mans fact is another mans fake news. Facts can only be established after the event. Before that it is an opinion or a prediction. That's part of the problem Ray. All and sundry giving their opinion as fact. Hence project fear.
[/quote]

You know Barney yes let's just crash out. If it all goes according to the Leavers 'plan' great and I will be the first to say how wrong I was. If it all goes wrong well why should we worry were retired and are more than financially sound, can get all the meds we need. Private medicine is not a problem, our large freezer should help to cope with shortages, perhaps a small generator if there is any interruption in electricity supply. YES why should we care????

[Onelife]

Par for the course.

On the one hand saying that you hope the blame game will cease. Yet in the very next sentence, dishing out blame.



Then, in your very next post you double down on the blame.

Don't be a hypocrite - if you want the blame game to stop, play your part in it, and stop dishing it out.

06 Apr 2019 09:23



"I’m just hoping that once we leave with Theresa’s deal all this blame game stuff will cease"

Since we are unlikely ever to leave with Theresa's deal, you are saying that you think you'll be able to play the blame game with impunity until the end of time. Right, we've got that straight. But don't be upset or surprised when I throw it back at you, whenever I feel like it

They’ll be no let up from me until such time that the referendum vote is honoured…Remainers caused this mess it’s about time you started owning it.

Still loving Theresa xx

[Onelife]

P.s

It'll be her deal or no deal.....the lady ain't for changing

[Gill W]

If we do happen to finish up with a ' No Deal ', something I do not recall advocating, I will be inclined to blame ALL the MPs who have spent the past three years or part thereof trying to kill Brexit and TM's deal in spite of pledges to the 17,000,000+ Leave voters and their individual Party manifestos.

As for owning what happens, well, that is totally ridiculous for none of us were responsible for what is destined to happen.

Basically, I'm turning around things that Leavers have said on this board. Some Leavers here have blamed Remainers for where we are now. If it's ridiculous for you to own what's going to happen, then it's equally as ridiculous for me to be blamed for what's happened.

Why have you never jumped on anybody saying that Remainers are to blame for all this?

Gill, be sensible no one voter or group of voters can be held responsible for the outcome of any vote, but they do need to consider the old adage, be careful what you wish for; and as a leave voter I will hold my hand up to any problems we encounter if in fact we leave, but only if we are leaving with a deal that I voted for which was always to exit the customs union and the single market with a negotiated deal.
So why are we where we are, well that's complicated but easily understood, we have a hung parliament, we have far more remain supporting MPs than leave MPs, and Scotlands 45% leave voters only have the 20% of Tory MPs on their side, and maybe not all them are leavers.
Then we have the vociferous remain campaign that followed the referendum, highlighted by that silly woman Gina Miller bringing a high court action. Do you honestly think that the EU closed their eyes and ears to all the demands to prevent Brexit when it came to the negotiations, of course not it totally weakened our hand resulting in the Chequers weekend and the first split in the cabinet, I could go on but you should get the point by now.
The end result is a watered down WA with an Irish backstop the DUP hate, and its costing us the net equivalent of 5 years EU membership, so no wonder we never jump on anyone saying Remainers are to blame.

You start off by saying one voter or group of voters can't be blamed - then end up by saying it's apparantly ok to blame remainers !

There you go again, writing your own history. We all know exactly why she protested that parliament should trigger A50 and not the government. It was because she assumed that they wouldn't do it. That back fired but that doesn't negate her motivation.

Her motivation is irrelevant. She stood up for British law and the sovereignty of our Parliament. Something I was led to believe was at the heart of the Brexit movement.

Her motivation and that of all the remainers was to thwart the result of the referendum, and it certainly looks as though they succeeded by ensuring the EU had the upper hand in the negotiations resulting in the watered down WA, and it could get much worse if a customs union is forced upon us. Shame on the lot of you.

Then you double down on the Remainer blaming and wish shame on all remainers

Once again - huge double standards being employed here

[Gill W]

We are living at a time when nobody can lose, gracefully or otherwise ?

Yep quite right Mobby, what's best for UK Ltd seems no longer a factor, people are supporting their 'team' irrespective. We should have a Royal Commission, go back to basics and then when we have the honest facts without spin we can make a considered decision one way or the other
but hey that would mean compromises, ooooh silly me

I agree - everyone needs to stand back and lose the 'tribe' mentality. We need to stop this for a while and reflect and consider.

But sadly, I don't think it's possible, time is too pressing and nobody is brave enough to hit the stop button.

[Gill W]

We are living at a time when nobody can lose, gracefully or otherwise ?

Yep quite right Mobby, what's best for UK Ltd seems no longer a factor, people are supporting their 'team' irrespective. We should have a Royal Commission, go back to basics and then when we have the honest facts without spin we can make a considered decision one way or the other
but hey that would mean compromises, ooooh silly me

One mans fact is another mans fake news. Facts can only be established after the event. Before that it is an opinion or a prediction. That's part of the problem Ray. All and sundry giving their opinion as fact. Hence project fear.

Project Fear is a knee jerk reaction, normally shouted when somebody (usually a Leaver), reads something or hears something that is at odds with their Brexit view.

[Stephen]

There can't be allot else happening in the world. Haven't heard from Trumpton for ages.

[Manoverboard]

I don't know why you feel the need to bring up being a moderator? It's nothing to do with that, I was speaking to you, the person, not the moderator.

I tried to provide you with an honest and comprehensive response regarding ' jumping on people ', it is only as a Moderator that I can possibly jump on anybody. You seem to spend most of your time jumping on Leavers so if they jump back it can surely not be a surprise, can it ?

One thing for certain is that those who voted to leave cannot be held responsible for the debacle that we are witnessing.


.

[barney]

One mans fact is another mans fake news. Facts can only be established after the event. Before that it is an opinion or a prediction. That's part of the problem Ray. All and sundry giving their opinion as fact. Hence project fear.
[/quote]

You know Barney yes let's just crash out. If it all goes according to the Leavers 'plan' great and I will be the first to say how wrong I was. If it all goes wrong well why should we worry were retired and are more than financially sound, can get all the meds we need. Private medicine is not a problem, our large freezer should help to cope with shortages, perhaps a small generator if there is any interruption in electricity supply. YES why should we care????
[/quote]

If you took that through to its natural conclusion you'd never leave your front door. You'd certainly never board a cruise ship. Some have sunk previously. Sure things may get worse. Equally they may get better. No one can say with any certainty. How do we know the future will be rosy inside the EU? The answer is, we don't.

[screwy]

Hehe. This is fun..

[towny44]

Basically, I'm turning around things that Leavers have said on this board. Some Leavers here have blamed Remainers for where we are now. If it's ridiculous for you to own what's going to happen, then it's equally as ridiculous for me to be blamed for what's happened.

Why have you never jumped on anybody saying that Remainers are to blame for all this?

Gill, be sensible no one voter or group of voters can be held responsible for the outcome of any vote, but they do need to consider the old adage, be careful what you wish for; and as a leave voter I will hold my hand up to any problems we encounter if in fact we leave, but only if we are leaving with a deal that I voted for which was always to exit the customs union and the single market with a negotiated deal.
So why are we where we are, well that's complicated but easily understood, we have a hung parliament, we have far more remain supporting MPs than leave MPs, and Scotlands 45% leave voters only have the 20% of Tory MPs on their side, and maybe not all them are leavers.
Then we have the vociferous remain campaign that followed the referendum, highlighted by that silly woman Gina Miller bringing a high court action. Do you honestly think that the EU closed their eyes and ears to all the demands to prevent Brexit when it came to the negotiations, of course not it totally weakened our hand resulting in the Chequers weekend and the first split in the cabinet, I could go on but you should get the point by now.
The end result is a watered down WA with an Irish backstop the DUP hate, and its costing us the net equivalent of 5 years EU membership, so no wonder we never jump on anyone saying Remainers are to blame.

You start off by saying one voter or group of voters can't be blamed - then end up by saying it's apparantly ok to blame remainers !

Her motivation is irrelevant. She stood up for British law and the sovereignty of our Parliament. Something I was led to believe was at the heart of the Brexit movement.

Her motivation and that of all the remainers was to thwart the result of the referendum, and it certainly looks as though they succeeded by ensuring the EU had the upper hand in the negotiations resulting in the watered down WA, and it could get much worse if a customs union is forced upon us. Shame on the lot of you.

Then you double down on the Remainer blaming and wish shame on all remainers

Once again - huge double standards being employed here

Gill, I said no one can be blamed for the way they voted, however all my comments relate to the remainers actions since they lost the vote.

[Gill W]

I don't know why you feel the need to bring up being a moderator? It's nothing to do with that, I was speaking to you, the person, not the moderator.

I tried to provide you with an honest and comprehensive response regarding ' jumping on people ', it is only as a Moderator that I can possibly jump on anybody. You seem to spend most of your time jumping on Leavers so if they jump back it can surely not be a surprise, can it ?

One thing for certain is that those who voted to leave cannot be held responsible for the debacle that we are witnessing.


.

I give up

[Gill W]

Gill, be sensible no one voter or group of voters can be held responsible for the outcome of any vote, but they do need to consider the old adage, be careful what you wish for; and as a leave voter I will hold my hand up to any problems we encounter if in fact we leave, but only if we are leaving with a deal that I voted for which was always to exit the customs union and the single market with a negotiated deal.
So why are we where we are, well that's complicated but easily understood, we have a hung parliament, we have far more remain supporting MPs than leave MPs, and Scotlands 45% leave voters only have the 20% of Tory MPs on their side, and maybe not all them are leavers.
Then we have the vociferous remain campaign that followed the referendum, highlighted by that silly woman Gina Miller bringing a high court action. Do you honestly think that the EU closed their eyes and ears to all the demands to prevent Brexit when it came to the negotiations, of course not it totally weakened our hand resulting in the Chequers weekend and the first split in the cabinet, I could go on but you should get the point by now.
The end result is a watered down WA with an Irish backstop the DUP hate, and its costing us the net equivalent of 5 years EU membership, so no wonder we never jump on anyone saying Remainers are to blame.

You start off by saying one voter or group of voters can't be blamed - then end up by saying it's apparantly ok to blame remainers !

Her motivation and that of all the remainers was to thwart the result of the referendum, and it certainly looks as though they succeeded by ensuring the EU had the upper hand in the negotiations resulting in the watered down WA, and it could get much worse if a customs union is forced upon us. Shame on the lot of you.

Then you double down on the Remainer blaming and wish shame on all remainers

Once again - huge double standards being employed here

Gill, I said no one can be blamed for the way they voted, however all my comments relate to the remainers actions since they lost the vote.

I give up I really do.

[barney]

What is almost certain is that if our country had have all pulled in the same direction after the referendum result, things would have been different. The simple point that many could and would not accept the result changed an awful lot.

[Gill W]

What I’ve learned today.

In the blinkered world of Leavers, Remainers are to blame for absolutely everything.

There is no point in me wasting any more time discussing anything with people who have such closed minds so i’ve given up.

I will stick to reporting news items.

In that vein, Geoffrey Cox has said in an interview today

‘I just feel we have under estimated it’s complexity. We are unpicking 45 years of in-depth integration. This needed to be done with very great care, in a phased and graduated way’.

Well, no sh*t Sherlock, I said pretty much the same on this forum, ages ago.

However, it’s my fault this has happened, as I am a Remainer

[barney]

Or alternatively just leave, agree a trade agreement and both sides can get on with life. Surely the penny has dropped in Brussels that if they don't get rid of the UK now we will be a huge thorn in their side for ever and a day. Their project of more EU will never wash with the majority here. The next PM will probably be a euro sceptic. Either Corbyn or aTory Brexiteer. One sentence to change the back stop and it would sail through parliament. Varadker has well and truly overplayed his hand.

[Jack Staff]

One sentence to ........................ and it would sail through parliament.

Put it to the people with a confirmatory vote, including the option to remain

[anniec]

However, it’s my fault this has happened, as I am a Remainer

Gill, I'm certainly not blaming you personally, and I hope no one else is - this debate always had two sides to it and (so far) I haven't fallen out with anyone over it; no rights or wrongs, only different opinions. I voted remain in 1975 and may have done so again this time had anyone managed to convince me of the wisdom of staying the EU. They didn't.

However, the remainers in Parliament have, IMHO, done a huge amount of damage in their efforts to overturn a vote that they called, that they told us was a once in a generation referendum and all the rest of it. They told us we finally had a say, then did everything they possibly could to sabotage a result they didn't expect or like.

I do hope Yvette Cooper, who has done a great deal of damage to our democracy and our negotiations, not that May needed any help to mess it up, is looking forward to meeting her constituents, nearly 70% of whom voted to leave.

Their behaviour has been simply appalling.

[anniec]

Put it to the people with a confirmatory vote, including the option to remain

What about a 'leave' option? With what qualifications? Leave with no deal?

Having studied our parliamentarians in recent weeks/months/years it would take them until the next millennium to decide on the questions, then they'd ignore the answer yet again if they didn't agree with it.

[Jack Staff]

Put it to the people with a confirmatory vote, including the option to remain

What about a 'leave' option? With what qualifications? Leave with no deal?

Having studied our parliamentarians in recent weeks/months/years it would take them until the next millennium to decide on the questions, then they'd ignore the answer yet again if they didn't agree with it.

As a remainer I wouldn't know and lets face it, after three years of bickering the Brexiters don't know either.
We could continue arguing for many more years. Remember the withdrawal agreement is the easy bit.

The best answer is to revoke Article 50 now. Then the Brexiters can take as long as they want to come up with a workable plan and put that to the people (if they must, as I think I have made my thoughts on plebiscites clear previously) or get that through Parliament.

[barney]

What a brilliant idea. Borderline genius. Over rule a vote and ask the electorate to vote again....... And again..... And again. Keep going until we Get It Right. Priceless.

[Ray Scully]

What a brilliant idea. Borderline genius. Over rule a vote and ask the electorate to vote again....... And again..... And again. Keep going until we Get It Right. Priceless.

But Barney, ye of little faith, another vote will only confirm how wonderful people have judged leaving will be and will 'kill off' the Remainers for ever.