Brexit

[Manoverboard]

Time for me to withdraw for a while.

Again

Again

Au revoir

Like a little playground gang.

All three of you - grow up

Back already ?

[Mervyn and Trish]

If Johnson had any proposals for a new deal, they’d do him the curtesy of listening.

But Johnson has nothing except empty words.

You can’t renegotiate when the side who are unhappy with the deal have nothing new to say.

But Gill you've been the one repeatedly telling us the EU will not renegotiate. You can't have it both ways.

I said they'd do him the curtesy of listening - I never said anything about negotiations

So what would be the point? There is a big difference between listening and hearing. And another difference between hearing and acting.

[Gill W]

But Gill you've been the one repeatedly telling us the EU will not renegotiate. You can't have it both ways.

I said they'd do him the curtesy of listening - I never said anything about negotiations

Honestly Gill, I can't think of a bigger waste of time than for the UK PM getting on a train to Brussels to be told that they cannot reopen the failed agreement.
Until they come to terms with the fact that the agreement is dead in its current form, there is not anything to discuss.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't.
Tick tock.....

Only an idiot would get on the train without having telephoned first.

Johnson has nothing new to say, that’s why he won’t even try.

How could the EU negotiate with someone who has no new ideas? As it’s the U.K. who don't like the deal, the new ideas have to come from us. And that’s never going to happen. So the EU aren’t going to waste their time.

So the impasse continues.

Tick tock indeed

[Gill W]

But Gill you've been the one repeatedly telling us the EU will not renegotiate. You can't have it both ways.

I said they'd do him the curtesy of listening - I never said anything about negotiations

So what would be the point? There is a big difference between listening and hearing. And another difference between hearing and acting.

It’s hypothetical.
Johnson will never have a new plan, with details

[towny44]

I said they'd do him the curtesy of listening - I never said anything about negotiations

Honestly Gill, I can't think of a bigger waste of time than for the UK PM getting on a train to Brussels to be told that they cannot reopen the failed agreement.
Until they come to terms with the fact that the agreement is dead in its current form, there is not anything to discuss.

Maybe they will, maybe they won't.
Tick tock.....

Only an idiot would get on the train without having telephoned first.

Johnson has nothing new to say, that’s why he won’t even try.

How could the EU negotiate with someone who has no new ideas? As it’s the U.K. who don't like the deal, the new ideas have to come from us. And that’s never going to happen. So the EU aren’t going to waste their time.

So the impasse continues.

Tick tock indeed

But Johnson's approach is new, he is now telling the EU that a WD that's been rejected by the UK parliament 3 times is truly dead, and that it's they who need to offer something new regarding the Irish backstop in order to get negotiations back jp and running.

[Golden Princess]

Why should they even consider offering something new?

[oldbluefox]

Why should they even consider offering something new?

Because the alternative is no deal which neither side particularly wants as the first option.

[towny44]

Why should they even consider offering something new?

Because the alternative is no deal which neither side particularly wants as the first option.

The remainers just seem unable to grasp this simple statement Foxy.

[Gill W]

The backstop was the UK’s idea in the first place.

All the EU 27 agreed to it as part of the Withdrawal Agreement.

Now we’re saying we don’t like our original idea, and it’s up the THEM to find an alternative?

Words actually fail me

[Mervyn and Trish]

We're not saying it's up to them to have a new idea. We're saying they need to be willing to discuss new ideas. Which they're not.. They're saying the old idea is the only idea. They are saying they will not renegotiate.

[Stephen]

We've wasted too much time with these idiots in Brussels. Just pull the plug and s*d'm.

[Manoverboard]

We realise that the Backstop was an error of judgement … now the other 27 Countries need to come to the same conclusion …. .

[Gill W]

We're not saying it's up to them to have a new idea. We're saying they need to be willing to discuss new ideas. Which they're not.. They're saying the old idea is the only idea. They are saying they will not renegotiate.

We're going round in a circle yet again.

The old idea is the only idea, because Johnson has nothing new.

If there's nothing new to talk about, there's nothing to renegotiate.

Therefore they will not renegotiate

[Gill W]

We realise that the Backstop was an error of judgement … now the other 27 Countries need to come to the same conclusion …. .

I'll assume that's tongue in cheek

[Gill W]

We've wasted too much time with these idiots in Brussels. Just pull the plug and s*d'm.

If that happens, I don't expect hear any complaints from you if it goes completely t*ts up, probably by mid November

[oldbluefox]

As Donald Trump said "It's a great deal...... for the EU."

Of course Boris will not be popular in some quarters simply because he has set out to draw a line under the whole scenario and administer what 17.4 million of the population voted for.

[towny44]

We're not saying it's up to them to have a new idea. We're saying they need to be willing to discuss new ideas. Which they're not.. They're saying the old idea is the only idea. They are saying they will not renegotiate.

We're going round in a circle yet again.

The old idea is the only idea, because Johnson has nothing new.

If there's nothing new to talk about, there's nothing to renegotiate.

Therefore they will not renegotiate

In which case no deal here we come, do you SERIOUSLY think the EU will allow that, especially as we have said there will be no hard Irish border which results in a very leaky EU single market.

[barney]

I'm just back from a buying trip at the NEC so can say exactly what is going on at the coalface.

Everybody, but everybody was discussing the dreaded B word.

The European suppliers that sell into the UK market have been massively hit regarding pre-orders, basically because no one really knows what is going to happen.
Companies that would happily commit to orders of tens of thousands are holding back and placing much smaller orders.

Our largest (Danish) supplier went into liquidation a few months back due to a drop in UK orders, so we've switched to Marble who are Scottish.
We did place orders with both Swedish and Danish companies, but just a few thousand to see how the land lies.
If tariffs end up being applicable, we'll have to renegotiate.

The 'market' is very jittery out there. Most are saying it's because of the indecision, and IF we actually leave in October, it will all settle down.

The upside was that the UK suppliers were creaming it and were very busy.

My overall impression was that most just want it all over with, one way or the other.

Then, everyone can get back to normal life and find other things to moan about.

too hot .. too cold.. too wet.. too dry .. too windy …………...

[Gill W]

As Donald Trump said "It's a great deal...... for the EU."

Of course Boris will not be popular in some quarters simply because he has set out to draw a line under the whole scenario and administer what 17.4 million of the population voted for.

I strongly doubt if 17.4 million people voted for a no deal Brexit, as it was going to be the easiest deal in history.

[Gill W]

I'm just back from a buying trip at the NEC so can say exactly what is going on at the coalface.

Everybody, but everybody was discussing the dreaded B word.

The European suppliers that sell into the UK market have been massively hit regarding pre-orders, basically because no one really knows what is going to happen.
Companies that would happily commit to orders of tens of thousands are holding back and placing much smaller orders.

Our largest (Danish) supplier went into liquidation a few months back due to a drop in UK orders, so we've switched to Marble who are Scottish.
We did place orders with both Swedish and Danish companies, but just a few thousand to see how the land lies.
If tariffs end up being applicable, we'll have to renegotiate.

The 'market' is very jittery out there. Most are saying it's because of the indecision, and IF we actually leave in October, it will all settle down.

The upside was that the UK suppliers were creaming it and were very busy.

My overall impression was that most just want it all over with, one way or the other.

Then, everyone can get back to normal life and find other things to moan about.

too hot .. too cold.. too wet.. too dry .. too windy …………...

Just believe.....

[Gill W]

We're not saying it's up to them to have a new idea. We're saying they need to be willing to discuss new ideas. Which they're not.. They're saying the old idea is the only idea. They are saying they will not renegotiate.

We're going round in a circle yet again.

The old idea is the only idea, because Johnson has nothing new.

If there's nothing new to talk about, there's nothing to renegotiate.

Therefore they will not renegotiate

In which case no deal here we come, do you SERIOUSLY think the EU will allow that, especially as we have said there will be no hard Irish border which results in a very leaky EU single market.

I think this is a variation on 'they need us more than we need them'.

And around we go again in the endless circle

[barney]

I'm just back from a buying trip at the NEC so can say exactly what is going on at the coalface.

Everybody, but everybody was discussing the dreaded B word.

The European suppliers that sell into the UK market have been massively hit regarding pre-orders, basically because no one really knows what is going to happen.
Companies that would happily commit to orders of tens of thousands are holding back and placing much smaller orders.

Our largest (Danish) supplier went into liquidation a few months back due to a drop in UK orders, so we've switched to Marble who are Scottish.
We did place orders with both Swedish and Danish companies, but just a few thousand to see how the land lies.
If tariffs end up being applicable, we'll have to renegotiate.

The 'market' is very jittery out there. Most are saying it's because of the indecision, and IF we actually leave in October, it will all settle down.

The upside was that the UK suppliers were creaming it and were very busy.

My overall impression was that most just want it all over with, one way or the other.

Then, everyone can get back to normal life and find other things to moan about.

too hot .. too cold.. too wet.. too dry .. too windy …………...

Just believe.....

I do Gill.

I'm old enough to have ridden out three or four recessions and guess what, we're all still here and the world didn't end.

Whatever the future holds, we'll deal with it. (and so will you, eventually)

[Mervyn and Trish]

We're not saying it's up to them to have a new idea. We're saying they need to be willing to discuss new ideas. Which they're not.. They're saying the old idea is the only idea. They are saying they will not renegotiate.

We're going round in a circle yet again.

The old idea is the only idea, because Johnson has nothing new.

If there's nothing new to talk about, there's nothing to renegotiate.

Therefore they will not renegotiate

Sorry Gill no. They've said they will not re-open the negotiations. They've not said they will if there's a new idea. They've said no new negotiation, full stop.

Like Jeremy Corbyn said Labour would vote against any deal Theresa May came back with, whatever it was.

And by the way your repeated claim that the backstop was our idea is a gross over simplification. It's much more complicated than that. If you look it up we've always accepted there needs to be a plan to deal with the Irish border. But the current wording of the disputed backstop, with the UK being held to ransom for ever, was an EU ambush. The wording was written by them and came as a surprise to everyone.

[barney]

We're going round in a circle yet again.

The old idea is the only idea, because Johnson has nothing new.

If there's nothing new to talk about, there's nothing to renegotiate.

Therefore they will not renegotiate

In which case no deal here we come, do you SERIOUSLY think the EU will allow that, especially as we have said there will be no hard Irish border which results in a very leaky EU single market.

I think this is a variation on 'they need us more than we need them'.

And around we go again in the endless circle

Denmark
Sweden
Luxembourg
Ireland

What have they got in common ?

Answer

They are the only four EU countries that buy more from us than we buy from them.

An uncomfortable truth against your argument is that they probably do need us (financially) more than we need them.

If we leave, we can trade with any other country that we choose to, on agreed terms.
None of the 27 can do that without a trade deal governed by the EU

It's easier to find suppliers than customers.

Fortunately we don't have a massive manufacturing base anymore and the financial sector has already factored in.

The car Japanese industry is going anyway, Brexit or not, due to the Japan/EU trade deal.
They only set up in the UK for access to the EU market, now the deal is done, they will retreat back to Japan, with no need for European manufacture.

Things will be different for a while, but I just can't see this end of the world scenario that some are forecasting.

[Gill W]

We're not saying it's up to them to have a new idea. We're saying they need to be willing to discuss new ideas. Which they're not.. They're saying the old idea is the only idea. They are saying they will not renegotiate.

We're going round in a circle yet again.

The old idea is the only idea, because Johnson has nothing new.

If there's nothing new to talk about, there's nothing to renegotiate.

Therefore they will not renegotiate

Sorry Gill no. They've said they will not re-open the negotiations. They've not said they will if there's a new idea. They've said no new negotiation, full stop.

Like Jeremy Corbyn said Labour would vote against any deal Theresa May came back with, whatever it was.

And by the way your repeated claim that the backstop was our idea is a gross over simplification. It's much more complicated than that. If you look it up we've always accepted there needs to be a plan to deal with the Irish border. But the current wording of the disputed backstop, with the UK being held to ransom for ever, was an EU ambush. The wording was written by them and came as a surprise to everyone.

Oh right , ok.

It's the nasty EU's fault