General Election

[Onelife]

I wouldn't go that far Stephen but l'd be happy to see him face down in a ditch

[Mervyn and Trish]

I just wish he'd shut up now. He's as irrelevant as Tony Blair and John Major to the future of this country and is, like me, entitled to one vote and no more.

[Gill W]

Well, well, it appears that my views are as out of sinc with the contributors on this thread as they were on the Brexit thread. Maybe that is why I don't get notifications of any posts?

You and me both, Ray! (although I don't want notifications)

This thread is going as I expected

No comment until prompted regarding Rees-Mogg's crass, insensitive comments and Brigden's apologist comments. The only comments on here, naturally were basically in agreement.

No comment on Farage saying he's going to field Brexit Party Limited candidates in all constituencies, thus splitting the Brexit vote. I thought this would have been worthy of some comment, bearing in mind at least one forum member has donated to Brexit Party Limited.

Silence on the Welsh Secretary's resignation.

Tumbleweed on the supressing of the Security Committee's report regarding Russian involvement in elections.

Not a peep about the Conservatives doctoring video of Keir Starmer's appearance on Breakfast TV, for Conservative propaganda purposes.

Yet, as soon as Bercow says something, they are straight in with the disparaging comments, including a questionable joke about Bercow, and a really unpleasant response to the joke.

It's all so predictable.


Regarding Grenfell.

The flats should have been designed to be individual fire proof units, so the residents were doing exactly what the block of flat's fire instructions would have told them to do, and what the fire brigade told them to do - to stay put in their own flats.

It must have been completely terrifying for them. It doesn't bear thinking about.

If the residents had taken the 'every man for himself approach that seems to be advocated on this forum, there'd have been about 350 panicked people pushing and shoving and trampling each other trying to get out, and getting in the way of the firefighters who were trying to put the fire out.

It could have been an even worse tragedy than it all ready was.

If that had happened, I have absolutely no doubt that Mogg would have criticised the residents for not following instructions, Andrew Brigden would have still been his apologist, and certain people on this forum would be agreeing with Mogg.

[towny44]

Well, well, it appears that my views are as out of sinc with the contributors on this thread as they were on the Brexit thread. Maybe that is why I don't get notifications of any posts?

You and me both, Ray! (although I don't want notifications)

This thread is going as I expected

No comment until prompted regarding Rees-Mogg's crass, insensitive comments and Brigden's apologist comments. The only comments on here, naturally were basically in agreement.

No comment on Farage saying he's going to field Brexit Party Limited candidates in all constituencies, thus splitting the Brexit vote. I thought this would have been worthy of some comment, bearing in mind at least one forum member has donated to Brexit Party Limited.

Silence on the Welsh Secretary's resignation.

Tumbleweed on the supressing of the Security Committee's report regarding Russian involvement in elections.

Not a peep about the Conservatives doctoring video of Keir Starmer's appearance on Breakfast TV, for Conservative propaganda purposes.

Yet, as soon as Bercow says something, they are straight in with the disparaging comments, including a questionable joke about Bercow, and a really unpleasant response to the joke.

It's all so predictable.


Regarding Grenfell.

The flats should have been designed to be individual fire proof units, so the residents were doing exactly what the block of flat's fire instructions would have told them to do, and what the fire brigade told them to do - to stay put in their own flats.

It must have been completely terrifying for them. It doesn't bear thinking about.

If the residents had taken the 'every man for himself approach that seems to be advocated on this forum, there'd have been about 350 panicked people pushing and shoving and trampling each other trying to get out, and getting in the way of the firefighters who were trying to put the fire out.

It could have been an even worse tragedy than it all ready was.

If that had happened, I have absolutely no doubt that Mogg would have criticised the residents for not following instructions, Andrew Brigden would have still been his apologist, and certain people on this forum would be agreeing with Mogg.

Do grow up Gill.
Since you take offence at everything I thought I might as well give something worth jumping up and down about.

[Onelife]

What a load of humbug you talk Gill

I was taught from a very early age that when you hear a fire alarm you evacuate the building by whatever means posible....The fact that the fire brigade were still telling people to "stay put" up to 2 hours after the fire started was the main reason lives were lost.....thankfully 200+ people ignored the fire brigade instructions and got out.

Inquiry chairman Sir Martin Moore-Bick said "the absence of a plan to evacuate the tower was a "major omission" by the brigade and more lives could have been saved had the "stay-put" policy been abandoned sooner"

You talk about "panic".... well given the chance again l'm sure the 72 who perished would have taken their chances on the stair-well rather than waiting for what was an ill prepared fire brigade both in communication and training.

Moggy....has through his common sense advice probably saved many more from succumbing to the same fate as those of Greenfell.

As for predictability you are right up their with the best

[johnds]

Question Time
Once again Fiona Bruce displayed her inability to control the panel.
The SNP guy continually interrupted the other speakers without Ms Bruce making any attempt to control him.
Can we in England please have a referendum to decide if we wish the Scots to remain part of the union?

[oldbluefox]

Oddly enough I was thinking the same. We have assemblies for the Scots the Welsh and the Irish which speak up for their own people. Who speaks purely for this nation? As for the SNP he persistently interrupted and nothing was done about it. Mind you Ms Bruce continually and annoyingly interjects anyway. Sometimes it's more about her ego than what is being asked.

[david63]

Was it just me or did anyone else think that all (except Iain Anderson) just kept droning on and on and on with Barry Gardiner being the worst of the lot.

As the SNP keep bleating on about Scotland not voting for Brexit (which is true as it was a UK referendum and not a Scottish one) so Scotland should not be leaving (which is only self interest as Scotland could not survive without the EU if they voted for independence) what would their approach be if the whole of the UK voted for Scottish independence but Scotland voted against it?

[towny44]

I think we are in danger of assuming all Scots think the same way as their SNP MP's and MSP's, which is rather like assuming that all Labour voters think the same way as Corbyn and McDonnell, which I feel certain is not true, although they might all be as confused as Diane Abbott if they continue voting Labour, but that's another story.
Based on the last Scottish referendum over 55% voted to remain part of the Uk, so on the same basis as I want to leave the EU on a 52% plus leave vote, let's accept that Scotland voted even more strongly to remain part of the UK.

[Manoverboard]

This thread is going as I expected

No comment until prompted regarding Rees-Mogg's crass, insensitive comments and Brigden's apologist comments. The only comments on here, naturally were basically in agreement.

Gill,

The comments were made on the basis of how we genuinely felt about the tragedy of G Tower, to even imply that it was politically, collectively or Brexit based is an insult to our intelligence … and frankly an insight into yours.

[oldbluefox]

Fair comment Mob.
Grenfell has been politicised by the left, something I find utterly distasteful. There is no need for anyone to perpetuate this bias.

[barney]

I had my first door knock this morning

A pleasant young lady asking if I would support the Libdem candidate , a local chap called Alex White, according to the leaflet.

I very politely told her that I couldn't support a single policy that the Libdems propose, from promising to over turn a democratic vote, to gerrymandering the national election by liaising with rival parties, to try and skew the outcome.

She thanked me for my time and proceeded next door to Pete, who is a rampant Tory.
Good luck with that one love !
I was almost tempted to stay out and watch, as a bizarre spectator sport

Apparently, I now live in a swing seat, which makes a nice change for me as previously I lived in a solid Tory seat so my alternative vote didn't count for much. All that changed was the size of the Tory majority.

So, as the Labour guy down here has no chance at all, do I put my X in the Brexit or Tory box?
Or, do I stay in the warm and not bother ?

[Stephen]

I'm just praying for labour to come knocking.

[Gill W]

This thread is going as I expected

No comment until prompted regarding Rees-Mogg's crass, insensitive comments and Brigden's apologist comments. The only comments on here, naturally were basically in agreement.

Gill,

The comments were made on the basis of how we genuinely felt about the tragedy of G Tower, to even imply that it was politically, collectively or Brexit based is an insult to our intelligence … and frankly an insight into yours.

I’m afraid I am not going to bother to respond in full to this tweet

You would delete what I want to say as ‘back seat moderating’, so i’m not going to make the effort.

You have an advantage in any debate that we have.

[Onelife]

I had my first door knock this morning

A pleasant young lady asking if I would support the Libdem candidate , a local chap called Alex White, according to the leaflet.

I very politely told her that I couldn't support a single policy that the Libdems propose, from promising to over turn a democratic vote, to gerrymandering the national election by liaising with rival parties, to try and skew the outcome.

She thanked me for my time and proceeded next door to Pete, who is a rampant Tory.
Good luck with that one love !
I was almost tempted to stay out and watch, as a bizarre spectator sport

Apparently, I now live in a swing seat, which makes a nice change for me as previously I lived in a solid Tory seat so my alternative vote didn't count for much. All that changed was the size of the Tory majority.

So, as the Labour guy down here has no chance at all, do I put my X in the Brexit or Tory box?
Or, do I stay in the warm and not bother ?

Hi Barney......Am l reading that correctly?.....it sounds that if your labour chap was in with a squeak your choice would be a three way decision as to where you put your X ???

Are you bloody crazy Barney or has Father Christmas and his seven dwarfs promises of a bountiful Christmas with many happy New years ahead clouded your perception of what future labour run Christmases would really be like?

Do the right thing Barney and back Boris, if you can't then l'm sending you a footstool for a nice cosy night in....enjoy!

Ho Ho Ho......and a very happy Christmas

Your guardian keefy

[Ray Scully]

Well, well, it appears that my views are as out of sinc with the contributors on this thread as they were on the Brexit thread. Maybe that is why I don't get notifications of any posts?

You and me both, Ray! (although I don't want notifications)

This thread is going as I expected

I think you are right Gill. I was disheartened to put it politely at the response to my Grenfell post. However it has only reinforced my view that as a practising socialist I have nothing at all in common with very much the majority of the contributors to this thread, so if I post anything again it will be of a general nature and hopefully humorous.

[barney]

Yep, you are reading it correctly Keefy.
I've been a Labour voter for nearly all of my life, but living in Maidstone & the Weald , it was irrelevant as Anne Widde was a shoe in every time.

Now I've moved down (proper) south, it appears once again that Labour don't get a look in.

Could I vote for Jezza ?
Too blooming right I would.
I love his spending policies.

The level of austerity since 2010 has been totally unnecessary in my opinion.
Short term to ride out the worst of the financial crash (caused by the bankers, by the way, not politicians) was totally acceptable, but the Tories then used it as a political tool.
In case you haven't noticed, this country is absolutely minted.
Folk bang on about a pledge to spend £25 billion while failing to understand that we give that much away every year in foreign aid, both to EU countries and others.

Borrowing rates have been among the lowest in history, for years, but all the Tories have continued to do is cut, cut, cut.

Now, all of a sudden there is an election and guess what ?
Spend, spend, spend.
Hammond openly admitted that he was sitting on a pot of money, didn't he.
The money has been there all the time, but the choice was not to spend it.
In the meantime, millions suffer, through cuts of different sorts.

My son works for Kent Police and he says that the service is literally on it's ar*e due to a budget cut of over 25%.
They simply do not have the resources to do the job properly anymore.
The catch phrase now is, "we do the best we can with the resources available"

Don't even get me started on the NHS and social care.
That needs billions, just to bring the service up to an acceptable level.

If we was a poor country, I could accept that things would be tough, but to inflict austerity on your citizens for no good reason, smacks of insanity.

[Onelife]

Hi Barney.....so you'll be voting for the Brexit party?

Oh for the utopian world of Corbyn's socialism....He giveth while others have to mop the mess he leaves behind.


Don't believe him Barney you know socialism promises you everything but rarely delivers anything in the long term...other than strikes, long dole queues, poverty and the feeling of wandering in a wilderness with no direction.

I can see how tempting socialism can be for some, "let's all work for the greater goal of equality" sadly there is one massive flaw in the values for which socialism stands for...we live in a global market place where the wheels of capitalism gives opportunities to those who wish to make  better lives for themselves....Why is it that people of all nationalities are willing to risk their live to reach countries such as ours.....It is because of the incentives and opportunities that capitalism affords them. 

Yes! of course capitalism  has many flaws but the flaws arn't the result of capitalism  per se, they are the result of Governments inability to put in place mechanisms that allow for a fairer distrubution of wealth.....The rich get richer, the poor get poorer, but making the rich poorer ain't going to maker the poor richer.....what socialism dose is take away the incentive to be richer which bennifits no one.

As for your spend, spend, spend comment, they've all done it but there is always a day of reckoning, unfortunately your labour party mates have aways struggled to grasp this fact...with austerity being the  price we all had to pay.


Love and kisses


Keefy


Sent from Samsung tablet

[towny44]

Keefy if you can persuade Barney to come over from the dark side, then maybe you should be writing leading articles for the socialist worker.

[Onelife]

Hi John,

As sure as dark turns into light this will make you all lol



https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ZRc0by2vZ7k

[Mervyn and Trish]

I didn't like some of the effects of austerity but it was a necessary evil after Gordon Brown flogging the family silver and driving up debt. Labour supporters conveniently forget that. Short term borrowing for specific projects is one thing but building an economy on ongoing debt leads to a basket case economy like Greece or worse a situation like Jezzer's utopian Venezuela. We might be a rich country. But that wouldn't last if we went down that route. There is certainly room to take the foot of the brakes a little now but there is no point whatever in going back to where we were ten years ago.

[towny44]

I didn't like some of the effects of austerity but it was a necessary evil after Gordon Brown flogging the family silver and driving up debt. Labour supporters conveniently forget that. Short term borrowing for specific projects is one thing but building an economy on ongoing debt leads to a basket case economy like Greece or worse a situation like Jezzer's utopian Venezuela. We might be a rich country. But that wouldn't last if we went down that route. There is certainly room to take the foot of the brakes a little now but there is no point whatever in going back to where we were ten years ago.

I agree with you Merv, the belt tightening, or austerity as the left wing media dubbed it, was essential to bring the deficit under control. But equally it was essential to re-balance public spending where Labour had allowed fiscally prudent averse local authorities far too much control over their spending, most councillors do not have the brains to understand how to manage a large corporation, and there are far too many left wing CEO's only too happy to grow their empires along with their salaries. But the easing of the brake should be accompanied by careful acceleration of spending only in areas that will grow the economy and increase living standards by enabling employers to pay higher wages, giving money away to encourage a life on benefits must NEVER be allowed to creep back into our society.

[Manoverboard]

Well, well, it appears that my views are as out of sinc with the contributors on this thread as they were on the Brexit thread. Maybe that is why I don't get notifications of any posts?

You and me both, Ray! (although I don't want notifications)

This thread is going as I expected

I think you are right Gill. I was disheartened to put it politely at the response to my Grenfell post. However it has only reinforced my view that as a practising socialist I have nothing at all in common with very much the majority of the contributors to this thread, so if I post anything again it will be of a general nature and hopefully humorous.

Ray …. Barney is a Socialist too and will have different views to the presumed Tories on the Forum but we can invariably discuss anything and not sulk if we don't get our own way in the debate. I am surprised, disappointed even, that you feel you cannot join in and do the same.

I would actually be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Grenfell issue.

[Ray Scully]

You and me both, Ray! (although I don't want notifications)

This thread is going as I expected

I think you are right Gill. I was disheartened to put it politely at the response to my Grenfell post. However it has only reinforced my view that as a practising socialist I have nothing at all in common with very much the majority of the contributors to this thread, so if I post anything again it will be of a general nature and hopefully humorous.

Ray …. Barney is a Socialist too and will have different views to the presumed Tories on the Forum but we can invariably discuss anything and not sulk if we don't get our own way in the debate. I am surprised, disappointed even, that you feel you cannot join in and do the same.

I would actually be interested in hearing your thoughts on the Grenfell issue.

Moby as I said I no longer wished to contribute to this thread, it is not a matter of sulking, it is that after the Grenfell post I feel that my values are at such a variance with some of the contributors that I no longer wish to be involved. As for the " Grenfell issue" apart from it being a terrible tragedy taking so many lives, I don't feel qualified to comment further,

[Manoverboard]

Moby as I said ........

Apologies Ray, I hadn't intended to imply that you would be sulking about anything at all.