Current Affairs

[david63]

All those protesting should now have to go into quarantine for the next 14 days.

[screwy]

When i first joined the Prison Service i was posted to Aylesbury YOI. It held/holds a large amount of Black prisoners, mostly from London. These guys were 17 -21 serving anything from 3 yrs to Life, indeed quite a few were Cat A . I and other Officers were quite often called 'Honky and White Boy' No matter how many times it was reported nothing was ever done. Now interestingly the bulk of Murders commited by these were mostly Black on Black.

[screwy]

All those protesting should now have to go into quarantine for the next 14 days.

On Rockall.!!

[oldbluefox]

This is worth a listen.
Pity more don't think like this fella. The world would be a better place.

[Gill W]

I was reading earlier that the guy who was pushed by police and fell was known to them as a "long-time social justice activist", not that it is any excuse but does provide some background. Also, and it may just be coincidence, why was somebody filming at that precise moment in that place?

These days, people have their cameras out all the time and film their experiences. I’ve seen that particular incident from two different angles. The one that has been widely circulated on the news, and it was also caught on camera from somebody else on the other side of the road who happened to have their camera out. The full incident can’t be seen, but you do see the 75 year old man stagger back and fall to the ground, hitting his head and lying still.

I don’t believe it’s sinister that the incident was caught on camera. What I find sinister is that if the police are behaving like this when everyone is waving their phones around filming, what on earth are they doing behind closed doors when the cameras aren’t there

For most of them behaving as one would hope and expect. I don't for one minute excuse the thuggish and ultimately fatal behaviour of this cop but let's not tar them all with the same brush. The vast majority will always behave well. A minority let the rest down. As with the rest of society.

As for the demos, I'm not convinced they'll achieve anything. Racism is, in my mind, an attitude. Those of us who are not racist don't need the demos to change us. Those who are, the ones who need to change, will just look at the demos and see the violent rent-a-mob amongst them, filter out the fact that many of those are white and only see the black ones, and further reinforce their prejudices.

It's been widely reported that all 57 members of the Buffalo Police Emergency Response team resigned from their roles in support of their two colleagues who were suspended over the incident.

So it looks as if they are condoning the incident. Maybe it's not one or two bad apples, but a problem with the orchard.

Of course, there's good and bad everywhere, but in America there seems to be a big problem. Maybe 'good' cops feel intimidated about making a stand, I don't know - but it seems like a slippery slope

[Mervyn and Trish]

These days, people have their cameras out all the time and film their experiences. I’ve seen that particular incident from two different angles. The one that has been widely circulated on the news, and it was also caught on camera from somebody else on the other side of the road who happened to have their camera out. The full incident can’t be seen, but you do see the 75 year old man stagger back and fall to the ground, hitting his head and lying still.

I don’t believe it’s sinister that the incident was caught on camera. What I find sinister is that if the police are behaving like this when everyone is waving their phones around filming, what on earth are they doing behind closed doors when the cameras aren’t there

For most of them behaving as one would hope and expect. I don't for one minute excuse the thuggish and ultimately fatal behaviour of this cop but let's not tar them all with the same brush. The vast majority will always behave well. A minority let the rest down. As with the rest of society.

As for the demos, I'm not convinced they'll achieve anything. Racism is, in my mind, an attitude. Those of us who are not racist don't need the demos to change us. Those who are, the ones who need to change, will just look at the demos and see the violent rent-a-mob amongst them, filter out the fact that many of those are white and only see the black ones, and further reinforce their prejudices.

It's been widely reported that all 57 members of the Buffalo Police Emergency Response team resigned from their roles in support of their two colleagues who were suspended over the incident.

So it looks as if they are condoning the incident. Maybe it's not one or two bad apples, but a problem with the orchard.

Of course, there's good and bad everywhere, but in America there seems to be a big problem. Maybe 'good' cops feel intimidated about making a stand, I don't know - but it seems like a slippery slope

There are 120,000 cops in America. Are you condemning them all?

[Gill W]

Don't you think some black people are racist? Are some of them perpetual victims and are they the victims of their own lifestyles?
It seems to me that those who have integrated into our society are those for whom racism is now in the past.

I think anybody can be racist, regardless of the colour of their skin.

It's not really for me to say, but I think a black person who, for example, has a successful business might be upset if somebody said to them that the reason they were successful is because they integrated into 'our' society and that racism for them was a thing of the past because they integrated and because 'more white'.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think for a minute you meant anything bad by this - but it's a societal thing, that white people don't need to change how they think, but it's up to black people to make all the running.

Please, please don't be offended, but it's just an illustration of how society has worked, and we are all influenced by it, that's why change is so desperately needed, and people are speaking out.

[Gill W]

For most of them behaving as one would hope and expect. I don't for one minute excuse the thuggish and ultimately fatal behaviour of this cop but let's not tar them all with the same brush. The vast majority will always behave well. A minority let the rest down. As with the rest of society.

As for the demos, I'm not convinced they'll achieve anything. Racism is, in my mind, an attitude. Those of us who are not racist don't need the demos to change us. Those who are, the ones who need to change, will just look at the demos and see the violent rent-a-mob amongst them, filter out the fact that many of those are white and only see the black ones, and further reinforce their prejudices.

It's been widely reported that all 57 members of the Buffalo Police Emergency Response team resigned from their roles in support of their two colleagues who were suspended over the incident.

So it looks as if they are condoning the incident. Maybe it's not one or two bad apples, but a problem with the orchard.

Of course, there's good and bad everywhere, but in America there seems to be a big problem. Maybe 'good' cops feel intimidated about making a stand, I don't know - but it seems like a slippery slope

There are 120,000 cops in America. Are you condemning them all?

Of course not.

However, I have seen some very disturbing images in the last 10 days. There's something not right over there

[Mervyn and Trish]

It's been widely reported that all 57 members of the Buffalo Police Emergency Response team resigned from their roles in support of their two colleagues who were suspended over the incident.

So it looks as if they are condoning the incident. Maybe it's not one or two bad apples, but a problem with the orchard.

Of course, there's good and bad everywhere, but in America there seems to be a big problem. Maybe 'good' cops feel intimidated about making a stand, I don't know - but it seems like a slippery slope

There are 120,000 cops in America. Are you condemning them all?

Of course not.

However, I have seen some very disturbing images in the last 10 days. There's something not right over there

Agreed. But you've only seen what the media want you to see. And this conversation started with your quote "what on earth are they doing behind closed doors when the cameras aren’t there" and my response that for the majority they were probably behaving well. 57 resigning doesn't change that.

[screwy]

One of the Officers in the GF case had only been 'Live' for 4 days, he actually spoke out at the time and said he thought it was wrong but of course the footage doesnt show this. It would be very difficult to challenge more senior Offrs, i mean Offrs with more time in. The Old guy was wrong to stand in front of Officers on the go, Look for trouble , you find it, of course their fellow offrs are giving support, doesnt make them all bad apples, it's a very thin blue line, doing a very difficult job, i'm sure you would swap places.

[Onelife]

Hi Gill,

I know me and you haven’t always seen eye to eye on certain topics but on this topic you have most eloquently put across my thoughts exactly…respect to you Gill.

[oldbluefox]

Gill, the people 'of colour' that I know don't go along with this 'Black Lives Matter' pressure group. They have integrated into our society and whilst they retain their own culture, they also accept our culture.This is what I mean by integration. It is for this reason I disagree with organisations like the Black Officers Police Association, the MOBO Awards which by their very nature differentiate. The aggressive blaming and campaigning stance will make little difference to those who are racist, quite the opposite but it antagonises those of us who don't have a racist bone in our bodies.
Bear in mind my home town is Leicester where several cultures live happily side by side. Perhaps London could learn a lot from them.

[Gill W]

There are 120,000 cops in America. Are you condemning them all?

Of course not.

However, I have seen some very disturbing images in the last 10 days. There's something not right over there

Agreed. But you've only seen what the media want you to see. And this conversation started with your quote "what on earth are they doing behind closed doors when the cameras aren’t there" and my response that for the majority they were probably behaving well. 57 resigning doesn't change that.

I've seen more than the British media show.

Other news outlets and media are easily available. As always, I like to look at information from a wide range of sources. I find it quite upsetting, so I haven't looked too often

[Gill W]

One of the Officers in the GF case had only been 'Live' for 4 days, he actually spoke out at the time and said he thought it was wrong but of course the footage doesnt show this. It would be very difficult to challenge more senior Offrs, i mean Offrs with more time in. The Old guy was wrong to stand in front of Officers on the go, Look for trouble , you find it, of course their fellow offrs are giving support, doesnt make them all bad apples, it's a very thin blue line, doing a very difficult job, i'm sure you would swap places.

I wouldn't swap places for a moment.

I've always had the greatest respect for the police, for as long as I can remember. I was that kid who always crossed the street so I could walk past the policeman and say hello !

Because I have such I deep rooted respect, it makes me so sad to see what is happening currently.

I agree that it is very difficult for a junior colleague to speak out, in any walk of life. Let's hope the veterans are up for calling out brutality. .

[Manoverboard]

.... I think a black person who, for example, has a successful business might be upset if somebody said to them that the reason they were successful is because they integrated into 'our' society ...

They'de be a whole lot more upset if somebody said that the reason for their success was because they were black.

[Gill W]

Gill, the people 'of colour' that I know don't go along with this 'Black Lives Matter' pressure group. They have integrated into our society and whilst they retain their own culture, they also accept our culture.This is what I mean by integration. It is for this reason I disagree with organisations like the Black Officers Police Association, the MOBO Awards which by their very nature differentiate. The aggressive blaming and campaigning stance will make little difference to those who are racist, quite the opposite but it antagonises those of us who don't have a racist bone in our bodies.
Bear in mind my home town is Leicester where several cultures live happily side by side. Perhaps London could learn a lot from them.

I get what you are saying. It the same reason that I don't go in for 'wimmins' groups.

However, these groups exist, and I accept that, although I feel that I don't have any need for it, other women's experiences are different to mine and they need support.

I also get what you are saying about the Black Officer's Police Association. There'd be hell to pay if there was such a thing as the White Police Officers Association! However, I also get that racism still exists, and some black officers feel they need more support.

I think London is a very tolerant city, for be fair.

[Gill W]

Hi Gill,

I know me and you haven’t always seen eye to eye on certain topics but on this topic you have most eloquently put across my thoughts exactly…respect to you Gill.

Thank you, I appreciate that. It's such a sensitive subject to discuss, and I've tried to measure every word

[Gill W]

.... I think a black person who, for example, has a successful business might be upset if somebody said to them that the reason they were successful is because they integrated into 'our' society ...

They'de be a whole lot more upset if somebody said that the reason for their success was because they were black.

I think a person of any ethnicity would be upset if they were told that the sole reason they were a success is because of their race/colour/heritage!

[Onelife]

This is worth a listen.
Pity more don't think like this fella. The world would be a better place.

The chap is right Foxy.... I also don’t think the majority of white people are racist…I just think it is the white people who make the rules that differentiate between black and white people’s standards of living.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-A ... ighborhood

[Mervyn and Trish]

I've seen more than the British media show.

Of course you have. So you'll be familiar with the old question "why do the media always focus on the bad news?"

In this case how many of the media outlets you peruse regularly show pictures of the police doing their job well? Just how balanced is the media coverage of the regular work of the police?

I say again in case you missed it. This is a terrible incident and those responsible deserve all they get from the justice system. The rest do not deserve to be painted the same way just because the cameras aren't rolling when they are working hard and well in difficult circumstances.

[screwy]

So Lisa Nandy condems one man..no names..for breaking lockdown but says its ok to protest in thousands..Hope this doesnt upset anyone..

[oldbluefox]

Barry Gardiner MP was there to look after them.
Sir Keir Starmer and the left wing press have been remarkably quiet on this.

[oldbluefox]

I just think it is the white people who make the rules that differentiate between black and white people’s standards of living.

Maybe true in the past but if you look at the government of today the ethnic groups are proportionally well represented.

[towny44]

Please, please don't be offended, but it's just an illustration of how society has worked, and we are all influenced by it, that's why change is so desperately needed, and people are speaking out.

Gill I agree with you that society needs to change, but I don't believe that mass protests, that more often than not result in violence and major public disorder are the right way to effect that change. In fact it will most likely lead to a backlash from extremist right wing groups.
In the current covid crisis an online protest would have produced exactly the same level of media coverage, and would have been far more acceptable to the public.

[Onelife]

I just think it is the white people who make the rules that differentiate between black and white people’s standards of living.

Maybe true in the past but if you look at the government of today the ethnic groups are proportionally well represented.

I would agree in this country Foxy but in America the word ‘proportionately’ still means us and them… if the past weeks events are anything to go by.