Current Affairs

[Gill W]

Who else was in this carload of people?
The difference is there is no evidence Cummings came into contact with none other than his own family (no evidence either that his wife had it) whereas Alli went to a funeral of a reported 100 other mourners and I presume there were more than Kevan Jones at the birthday party. So I presume that's fine in your mind that they could not transmit the disease and their actions were fine.
But of course we all know the real gripe you have with Cummings don't we?

Plenty of evidence his wife had it - she said so herself in an article written for (I think) The Spectator.

The difference is that Cummings was part of the government machine making the rules. The others you mention were not, though that's no excuse.

I posted a link to that Spectator article on this thread weeks ago, but I don’t think anybody read it, but she said she had C19.

I also made a similar point to you, that, although the others were wrong to do the things they did, Cummings was instrumental in making the rules. Then he himself flouted the rules. Instead of apologising, he reverse engineered a ludicrous story to fit the information that had found its way into the public domain. His jaunt to Durham was at the height of the pandemic, and he basically stuck two fingers up at everyone who was observing the lockdown. But he got away with it, so he must think he’s untouchable now.

[oldbluefox]

I posted a link to that Spectator article on this thread weeks ago, but I don’t think anybody read it, but she said she had C19.

Although she had symptoms I could find no evidence his wife actually had it in any of the reports unless she was self diagnosing.

I also made a similar point to you, that, although the others were wrong to do the things they did, Cummings was instrumental in making the rules. Then he himself flouted the rules. Instead of apologising, he reverse engineered a ludicrous story to fit the information that had found its way into the public domain. His jaunt to Durham was at the height of the pandemic, and he basically stuck two fingers up at everyone who was observing the lockdown. But he got away with it, so he must think he’s untouchable now.

To avoid going round in circles I think Merv has already answered this in #4897.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Hey guess what. Just seen on the BBC that it is the test and trace system, which of course is a failure, which has identified the Leicester outbreak.

[oldbluefox]

Well, Sedwill has ‘agreed’ to go, and Cummings crony David Frost is to take over as National Security Advisor, so I’ll continue to speculate

An ardent Remainer out and a Leaver in. Not surprised really.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Nor me. Of course it the outgoing was as great a civil servant as we're told we shouldn't know or even suspect his view. As for the incoming we shouldn't know his either. But he is being appointed to deliver the policy of the elected government so they're not going to appoint someone to sabotage their policy.

[Gill W]

Hey guess what. Just seen on the BBC that it is the test and trace system, which of course is a failure, which has identified the Leicester outbreak.

That’s good though, isn’t it?

[Manoverboard]

Well, Sedwill has ‘agreed’ to go, and Cummings crony David Frost is to take over as National Security Advisor, so I’ll continue to speculate

Please do but in such circles comings ( a translation may be required ) and goings are the norm as No 10 sifts out those who will support rather than hinder their manifesto promises.

[Manoverboard]

Oh I understand Gill you would not start from here, which is a great way to avoid answering Merv's very valid question.
All I can add is that it's a b****y good job you're not leading the Govt.

I can answer in any way I want.i don’t have to spend hours constructing answers to cover every minute detail of of every post.

I didn’t comment earlier when you chose to make your post this morning about me, and avoid addressing the subject of Jenrick, People in glass houses?

As for your last comment, that’s just silly, and I’m not going waste time on it.

I wouldn't either ... on this thorny Topic personal comment is best avoided.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Hey guess what. Just seen on the BBC that it is the test and trace system, which of course is a failure, which has identified the Leicester outbreak.

That’s good though, isn’t it?

It is. I only mention it because those who've been criticising the system and detest good news have been predictably quiet.

[Onelife]

Hey guess what. Just seen on the BBC that it is the test and trace system, which of course is a failure, which has identified the Leicester outbreak.

That’s good though, isn’t it?

It is. I only mention it because those who've been criticising the system and detest good news have been predictably quiet.

Have no fear keefy will be speaking louder than ever about this slur against my good name.....how dare you Sir Merv after all the nice things l've be saying about you lately. ...However, in the mean time l'm off to the garden centre....l'll be back!! Be worried , very, very worried

[Gill W]

Well, Sedwill has ‘agreed’ to go, and Cummings crony David Frost is to take over as National Security Advisor, so I’ll continue to speculate

Please do but in such circles comings ( a translation may be required ) and goings are the norm as No 10 sifts out those who will support rather than hinder their manifesto promises.

I will.

It’s all looking very strange to me.

[Mervyn and Trish]

That’s good though, isn’t it?

It is. I only mention it because those who've been criticising the system and detest good news have been predictably quiet.

Have no fear keefy will be speaking louder than ever about this slur against my good name.....how dare you Sir Merv after all the nice things l've be saying about you lately. ...However, in the mean time l'm off to the garden centre....l'll be back!! Be worried , very, very worried

Now who mentioned you Keefy?

[screwy]

As lots of people claim that’s it’s really the Civil Service that runs the country,maybe Boris is right to get shut,seeing how some people think it’s the governments fault.?

Just a thought.

Again , I’m sure Merv could have put it more elequently...

[Mervyn and Trish]

As lots of people claim that’s it’s really the Civil Service that runs the country

I think you're right. Which is why when civil servants resist the policy of the elected government they have to be shown the door. It's not the first time it's happened and it won't be the last, under any party/prime minister. If Corbyn had been elected you can bet he'd have had his own clear out and put extreme lefties in their place.

[Manoverboard]

Now who mentioned you Keefy?

He's on stand by ready to strike at a moments notice .... Mobietta had a tortoise who was exactly the same

[david63]

Which is why when civil servants resist the policy of the elected government they have to be shown the door.

But is that really any different to any other "business". You have a team who have been doing the job for years and a new manager comes in who knows nothing about the business and wants to change things. Those who have been there all the time have probably seen every permutation of options in the way things are done and just sit back and say "that will never work - we tried that three years ago with your predecessor" and either the team go or the manager goes.

[towny44]

Which is why when civil servants resist the policy of the elected government they have to be shown the door.

But is that really any different to any other "business". You have a team who have been doing the job for years and a new manager comes in who knows nothing about the business and wants to change things. Those who have been there all the time have probably seen every permutation of options in the way things are done and just sit back and say "that will never work - we tried that three years ago with your predecessor" and either the team go or the manager goes.

But there is the political difference to take into account, most businesses thrive on the old chaos theory every decade or so, but in the end they are only concerned about the bottom line, so generally most staff adapt to the new system.
Politics and Govt. is a bit more nuanced than that, and although civil servants are supposed to be neutral, I doubt they are, and its then that it becomes more difficult for them to adapt to a new regime.

[Onelife]

It is. I only mention it because those who've been criticising the system and detest good news have been predictably quiet.

Have no fear keefy will be speaking louder than ever about this slur against my good name.....how dare you Sir Merv after all the nice things l've be saying about you lately. ...However, in the mean time l'm off to the garden centre....l'll be back!! Be worried , very, very worried

Now who mentioned you Keefy?

I can’t think why but I’ve decided to reflect on the tortoise and the hare fable and give you a soft landing ….there has to my recollection only been three members who have criticised the track and trace app, me being the most outspoken, therefore you will understand why the tortoise feels justified in wanting a stewards inquiry.

You were a bit fast out of the blocks with your comments Sir Merv, indeed, I would go as far as to say it was a false start in that your race plan falls asleep when you look back on my track record. What I have constantly said is that the track and trace app saga has been a complete cock up, not only in the way it has been handled but also in the way they were predicting that it would work. I also said that for any T&R to work it would have to be when the infection rates were at a manageable level…as in the case of Leicester new outbreak, therefore I will conclude by saying this tortoise crosses the line exhausted but with a on my face.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Oh Keefy thou d'st protest too much. Did I say I was referring to critics on the forum? There have been lots critically in the media with banner headlines.. Now the system is doing its job the news is buried in the small print.

And not just you but the government too said it would only work when cases were at a lower level. That was why it was suspended when cases escalated. Not that it stopped the hacks asking the same question every day.

[Gill W]

Which is why when civil servants resist the policy of the elected government they have to be shown the door.

But is that really any different to any other "business". You have a team who have been doing the job for years and a new manager comes in who knows nothing about the business and wants to change things. Those who have been there all the time have probably seen every permutation of options in the way things are done and just sit back and say "that will never work - we tried that three years ago with your predecessor" and either the team go or the manager goes.

This isn’t a business though, it’s government.

Seems like Cummings is trying to go for a US style administration staffed by PM appointees from outside Parliament, whose authority stems from the PM rather than Parliament or the Civil Service. The checks and balances are being removed.

[Mervyn and Trish]

Which is why when civil servants resist the policy of the elected government they have to be shown the door.

But is that really any different to any other "business". You have a team who have been doing the job for years and a new manager comes in who knows nothing about the business and wants to change things. Those who have been there all the time have probably seen every permutation of options in the way things are done and just sit back and say "that will never work - we tried that three years ago with your predecessor" and either the team go or the manager goes.

This isn’t a business though, it’s government.

Seems like Cummings is trying to go for a US style administration staffed by PM appointees from outside Parliament, whose authority stems from the PM rather than Parliament or the Civil Service. The checks and balances are being removed.

Do look back at previous governments Gill and forget your obsession with Cummings. It has always been the same. Blair had Campbell (just as odious as Cummings), Thatcher had Ingham, Wilson had Falkener. And every Prime Minister in between. Every Priime Minister has close personal advisors they can trust while fellow ministers are sharpening their knives. Top civil servants who did not fit have regularly faced the chop. It is nothing new.

[oldbluefox]

Seems like Cummings is trying to go for a US style administration staffed by PM appointees from outside Parliament, whose authority stems from the PM rather than Parliament or the Civil Service. The checks and balances are being removed.

Not sure this is unique to the US but isn't this what any democratically leader would be doing once in office? No matter who was PM they would appoint those they felt confident would carry out the policies of the government in power at that time.

[Manoverboard]

Seems like Cummings is trying to go for a US style administration staffed by PM appointees from outside Parliament, whose authority stems from the PM rather than Parliament or the Civil Service. The checks and balances are being removed.

Governance results in decisions being taken which will have a direct or indirect impact of businesses therefore it surely makes sound sense to replace a number of deadwood left wing Private School dreary types with those who have a modicum of entrepreneurial expertise and knowledge that was acquired in the real world. All this will eventually afford a platform to make decisions based on improving the economy rather than conjuring up yet another set of useless procedures / guidelines which tend to tie the hands of the profit makers.

[oldbluefox]

After Theresa May's ineptitude in the Brexit negotiations I think it was inevitable that Boris would be making changes.

[Onelife]

Oh Keefy thou d'st protest too much. Did I say I was referring to critics on the forum? There have been lots critically in the media with banner headlines.. Now the system is doing its job the news is buried in the small print.

And not just you but the government too said it would only work when cases were at a lower level. That was why it was suspended when cases escalated. Not that it stopped the hacks asking the same question every day.

No, you didn't Sir Merv, which is why under normal race conditions it would require an apology, however, on this occasion I’m only prepared to accept a dead-heat due to some dodgy race riding tactics.