Current Affairs

[oldbluefox]

It is easy to blame the airlines, the countries they are flying to or the government but if holidaymakers are behaving in these European destinations as they have done in Bournemouth, Leeds, Liverpool etc etc is it any surprise that they are bringing it home with them. We can blame Uncle Tom Cobley and all till the cows come home but individuals must take responsibility for their own protection and welfare. From what I have seen over the past few months some people have done neither but they will bleat loudly if they come a cropper.
From the little I have seen on the TV hotels abroad have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure the safety of guests but holidaymakers have to play their part as well. It would be interesting to know the circumstances behind this infection although I realise this is something we may never know as it is doubtful anyone will admit it.

[towny44]

I can understand that the government needs to get the economy going again but l fail to see what bennifit there is to this country in flying holiday makers to holiday destinations with increasing infection rates....l can't see that this move will aleviate pressure off the airlines because l don't think the numbers will be there to make it viable.

Can someone enlighten me as l can't see the logic behind this.

I think you need to ask Boris for the answer Keith, I am sure he will be able to set your mind at ease.

[Onelife]

It is easy to blame the airlines, the countries they are flying to or the government but if holidaymakers are behaving in these European destinations as they have done in Bournemouth, Leeds, Liverpool etc etc is it any surprise that they are bringing it home with them. We can blame Uncle Tom Cobley and all till the cows come home but individuals must take responsibility for their own protection and welfare. From what I have seen over the past few months some people have done neither but they will bleat loudly if they come a cropper.
From the little I have seen on the TV hotels abroad have gone to extraordinary lengths to ensure the safety of guests but holidaymakers have to play their part as well. It would be interesting to know the circumstances behind this infection although I realise this is something we may never know as it is doubtful anyone will admit it.

I’m not blaming the airlines for trying to kick start their industry but I think the same applies to airlines as it does with the cruise lines, a start/stop situation could be far more financially damaging than kick starting an industry prematurely…. one plane load of infected passengers would ground the industry indefinitely due to passenger confidence.

I believe there is a conflict of interests regarding countries that rely heavily on tourism, therefore, one shouldn’t be taken in by any of their infection statistics. I don’t blame them; I just don’t trust them to tell the truth.

With responsibility comes good judgement and opening up of air bridges other than for freight/ business travel seems irresponsible at this moment in time. ‘Our Uncle Tom Cubley and all’ need to stop making it up as they go along, rash decisions generally end up with paying higher prices, so instead of whisking holidaymakers off to foreign hotels, perhaps it would be more prudent to start encouraging people to spend their money in this country?

As an aside we have some tough negotiating to be done in the next few months so there couldn’t be a better time to demonstrate that theses countries need us more than what we need then.

I'm starting to think some of the decision making is held up with an elastic band...then again I could be talking a load of pants

[Manoverboard]

I can understand that the government needs to get the economy going again but l fail to see what bennifit there is to this country in flying holiday makers to holiday destinations with increasing infection rates....l can't see that this move will aleviate pressure off the airlines because l don't think the numbers will be there to make it viable.

Can someone enlighten me as l can't see the logic behind this.

They are giving Mr & Mrs Dopey the freedom to make a choice but as they are Dopey by nature as well as by name they will buy a ticket and ignore all the precautions put in place to protect all concerned. The logic is to start the slow process of getting more and more people to return to some sort of normality, the first lot are guinea pigs ... would be my guess.

[Onelife]

I can understand that the government needs to get the economy going again but l fail to see what bennifit there is to this country in flying holiday makers to holiday destinations with increasing infection rates....l can't see that this move will aleviate pressure off the airlines because l don't think the numbers will be there to make it viable.

Can someone enlighten me as l can't see the logic behind this.

They are giving Mr & Mrs Dopey the freedom to make a choice but as they are Dopey by nature as well as by name they will buy a ticket and ignore all the precautions put in place to protect all concerned. The logic is to start the slow process of getting more and more people to return to some sort of normality, the first lot are guinea pigs ... would be my guess.

Good morning Mob…. that’s all well and good but do you know how much it costs to keep a pig in quarantine for two weeks?

[Onelife]

I can understand that the government needs to get the economy going again but l fail to see what bennifit there is to this country in flying holiday makers to holiday destinations with increasing infection rates....l can't see that this move will aleviate pressure off the airlines because l don't think the numbers will be there to make it viable.

Can someone enlighten me as l can't see the logic behind this.

I think you need to ask Boris for the answer Keith, I am sure he will be able to set your mind at ease.

I doubt it John.....

[towny44]

There's an interesting article in today's Mail about a Toronto University report suggesting that the timing of Lockdown has had little impact on the death rate, it does however help to prevent the health service becoming overstretched. The report believes that obesity levels and underlying health issues are the main issue for death rates, and it also highlights that poorer countries fare much better with far lower death rates. It suggests this could be due to lower obesity levels, and possibly stronger immune systems from higher Vitamin D levels, as most of the poorer countries are in the tropics, and maybe due to their insanitary living conditions.
If I were Keefie I might be saying I told you so.

[barney]

I think if the truth be known, the ISC was hoping to find a smoking gun but in reality, found nothing so have tried to move the goalposts.
Remember the Mueller report in America?
They couldn’t find evidence of Russian collusion so moved on to obstructing the investigation.

Imagine this hypothetical.
The Government instructs the Intelligence Service to dedicate many hours looking for some kind of Russian interference, and while doing this, there is a major terror attack.
The press would have a field day.
Can you imagine if the Director had to say that he’d moved staff away from critical work.

A link to a story today to reinforce my point about the ISC
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... d-with-isc

They are basically a bunch of well meaning but out of their depth MPs who I wouldn't trust with any sensitive information.

The well meaning but out of their depth 'experts' who post opinions on forums should also take note that everything goes on behind the scenes.
The moment it comes into the public domain, the system falls and we are all in grave danger.

[Stephen]

Think about the possible alternative if you are against wearing a mask as from today in shops.

115798856_10218019223138618_5209810383717830225_n.jpg

[oldbluefox]

Are our security services or the government really going to disclose what is going on behind the scenes? Are we really so naive to believe that it's prudent in the cause of transparency and openness to disclose everything we are doing which would place security personnel at risk? And if the level of Russian interference amounts to their activity on social media trying to influence the more gullible it just demonstrates how desperate some have become to discredit our democracy.
I must admit, after the past four years we have witnessed plenty of examples of groups financed from outside our shores trying to overcome a democratic vote.

[towny44]

I must admit, after the past four years we have witnessed plenty of examples of groups financed from outside our shores trying to overcome a democratic vote.

Most of those were members of the ruling liberal elite who took great umbrage in the British public disagreeing with their love of the EU, and more likely the loss of the great Brussels gravy train. How dare we?

[david63]

And if the level of Russian interference amounts to their activity on social media trying to influence the more gullible

Or perhaps another way of looking at it is that that is all they are able to do because the security services are doing their job and blocking everything else.

[oldbluefox]

Most of those were members of the ruling liberal elite who took great umbrage in the British public disagreeing with their love of the EU, and more likely the loss of the great Brussels gravy train. How dare we?

Oh I couldn't possibly say that!!!!

[oldbluefox]

And if the level of Russian interference amounts to their activity on social media trying to influence the more gullible

Or perhaps another way of looking at it is that that is all they are able to do because the security services are doing their job and blocking everything else.

Of course that's what is happening. And would the security services advertise it if the Russians did manage to penetrate our defences? Common sense tells you the answer to that one.

[barney]

I must admit, after the past four years we have witnessed plenty of examples of groups financed from outside our shores trying to overcome a democratic vote.

Most of those were members of the ruling liberal elite who took great umbrage in the British public disagreeing with their love of the EU, and more likely the loss of the great Brussels gravy train. How dare we?

Very little has been reported about the historic agreement between the 27 with reference to the mutualisation of debt John.

Had we still been a member, it is estimated that out 'share' would have been in the region of about £110 billion euros.
Much of this going in the way of grants, not loans, so basically agreeing to write it off.
Sure, some of it would have been coming back to the UK but not much.
This would have been on top of our normal contributions.

Many in Europe see it as a 'Hamilton' moment, similar to when the United States formed.
United States of Europe ?
Anyone remember our old mate Jack Staff chastising me for even suggesting such a thing and said that it would never happen.

Slowly but surely, they are etching away at individual sovereignty.
Harmonisation of taxes next.
Just your wait ( as they sang in Hamilton)

There is a strong movement to oust the unanimity rule in favour of Qualified Majority Voting on all issues.
Then Brussels has total control, which was always the point.

[oldbluefox]

I think our friend Jack was a worse predictor of form than Keefy?

[Gill W]

I think if the truth be known, the ISC was hoping to find a smoking gun but in reality, found nothing so have tried to move the goalposts.
Remember the Mueller report in America?
They couldn’t find evidence of Russian collusion so moved on to obstructing the investigation.

Imagine this hypothetical.
The Government instructs the Intelligence Service to dedicate many hours looking for some kind of Russian interference, and while doing this, there is a major terror attack.
The press would have a field day.
Can you imagine if the Director had to say that he’d moved staff away from critical work.

A link to a story today to reinforce my point about the ISC
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/ ... d-with-isc

They are basically a bunch of well meaning but out of their depth MPs who I wouldn't trust with any sensitive information.

The well meaning but out of their depth 'experts' who post opinions on forums should also take note that everything goes on behind the scenes.
The moment it comes into the public domain, the system falls and we are all in grave danger.

I note that you use the Guardian to illustrate your point, a newspaper normally dismissed by readers of this forum. Yet, this time, no one seems to have a problem with the Guardian at all!

Also, I’m amused that you have chosen to have a little dig at people who post on forums - whilst posting on a forum yourself!

[Gill W]

I think our friend Jack was a worse predictor of form than Keefy?

We don’t know yet. We’re still in a transition period

[Gill W]

In other news that Bojo critics won't be shouting about, the Covid Symptom Study, the people behind the Zoe App, which currently has over 4,000,000 people, including us, submitting data daily, has done an analysis on the impact of temperature on the virus.

They have found that there is a 15% drop in mortality for every 1 degree C rise in temperature.

So, taking April, for example, London average temperature 13C. Paris 17C. Madrid 19C. Rome 19C.

Any clues there as to why we had more deaths than France, Spain or Italy?

I'm now standing by for that research to be dismissed as less relevant than Dominic Cummings being a p***ock.

I think that cold weather can generally increase the amounts of people dying, as when we have a cold snap in winter, more people die.

However, think April was warmer than average in the U.K. (I have looked this up to confirm my memory)

If it was a factor, then it would have to follow that colder countries, have a higher death rate per capita than the U.K. I haven’t checked this, but I don’t think this is the case.

[Manoverboard]

I think our friend Jack was a worse predictor of form than Keefy?

We don’t know yet. We’re still in a transition period

We are ' OUT ' is what we are

[barney]

In other news that Bojo critics won't be shouting about, the Covid Symptom Study, the people behind the Zoe App, which currently has over 4,000,000 people, including us, submitting data daily, has done an analysis on the impact of temperature on the virus.

They have found that there is a 15% drop in mortality for every 1 degree C rise in temperature.

So, taking April, for example, London average temperature 13C. Paris 17C. Madrid 19C. Rome 19C.

Any clues there as to why we had more deaths than France, Spain or Italy?

I'm now standing by for that research to be dismissed as less relevant than Dominic Cummings being a p***ock.

I think that cold weather can generally increase the amounts of people dying, as when we have a cold snap in winter, more people die.

However, think April was warmer than average in the U.K. (I have looked this up to confirm my memory)

If it was a factor, then it would have to follow that colder countries, have a higher death rate per capita than the U.K. I haven’t checked this, but I don’t think this is the case.

I think it’s as simple as how each country is recording it Gill.
There is even a difference in the four U.K. countries.
I cannot believe that India has had a million more infections than us but 15 thousand fewer deaths when our stats show that Asians have a higher mortality rate here.
Many others had had huge infections but low mortality.

[Mervyn and Trish]

In other news that Bojo critics won't be shouting about, the Covid Symptom Study, the people behind the Zoe App, which currently has over 4,000,000 people, including us, submitting data daily, has done an analysis on the impact of temperature on the virus.

They have found that there is a 15% drop in mortality for every 1 degree C rise in temperature.

So, taking April, for example, London average temperature 13C. Paris 17C. Madrid 19C. Rome 19C.

Any clues there as to why we had more deaths than France, Spain or Italy?

I'm now standing by for that research to be dismissed as less relevant than Dominic Cummings being a p***ock.

I think that cold weather can generally increase the amounts of people dying, as when we have a cold snap in winter, more people die.

However, think April was warmer than average in the U.K. (I have looked this up to confirm my memory)

If it was a factor, then it would have to follow that colder countries, have a higher death rate per capita than the U.K. I haven’t checked this, but I don’t think this is the case.

Not being picky Gill but really I prefer the research conducted by the scientists behind the Covid App to your amateur analysis. And they seem pretty clear on it.

[Onelife]

In other news that Bojo critics won't be shouting about, the Covid Symptom Study, the people behind the Zoe App, which currently has over 4,000,000 people, including us, submitting data daily, has done an analysis on the impact of temperature on the virus.

They have found that there is a 15% drop in mortality for every 1 degree C rise in temperature.

So, taking April, for example, London average temperature 13C. Paris 17C. Madrid 19C. Rome 19C.

Any clues there as to why we had more deaths than France, Spain or Italy?

I'm now standing by for that research to be dismissed as less relevant than Dominic Cummings being a p***ock.

I think that cold weather can generally increase the amounts of people dying, as when we have a cold snap in winter, more people die.

However, think April was warmer than average in the U.K. (I have looked this up to confirm my memory)

If it was a factor, then it would have to follow that colder countries, have a higher death rate per capita than the U.K. I haven’t checked this, but I don’t think this is the case.

Not being picky Gill but really I prefer the research conducted by the scientists behind the Covid App to your amateur analysis. And they seem pretty clear on it.

I quite enjoy Gills take on things as her posts generally give opposing views which on balance are good for a forums such as ours…
…a very astute lady is our Gill

I also love Theresa

[Stephen]

I think that cold weather can generally increase the amounts of people dying, as when we have a cold snap in winter, more people die.

However, think April was warmer than average in the U.K. (I have looked this up to confirm my memory)

If it was a factor, then it would have to follow that colder countries, have a higher death rate per capita than the U.K. I haven’t checked this, but I don’t think this is the case.

Not being picky Gill but really I prefer the research conducted by the scientists behind the Covid App to your amateur analysis. And they seem pretty clear on it.

I quite enjoy Gills take on things as her posts generally give opposing views which on balance are good for a forums such as ours…
…a very astute lady is our Gill

I also love Theresa

Crawler

[Onelife]

I think our friend Jack was a worse predictor of form than Keefy?

You better believe it Foxy…to date I’m averaging a one in three success rates with my predictions which is far better than most of the other, so called experts on this forum