Brexit

[Golden Princess]

So how long are we likely to have food shortages? And would workable tariffs make food very expensive?

What is the alternative?

[Gill W]

I'm not pretending this will be easy. I never believed it would. But I believe the prize will be worth it. I don't expect everyone to agree with me. I know Jack and Gill won't. Fair enough. We all have our views and they are all valid. None of us actually know. We all have our views too on how the future within the EU would have panned out. None of us know that either. It was a gamble either way.

I know you said you intended to keep out of it (I said that too, once!) so I'll understand if you don't respond.

What is the prize, and how much 'pain' do you think it's acceptable to go through to win the prize.

Everywhere I look, respected people are giving a negative view of our post Brexit life. I'm desperately trying to understand the Brexiter mindset - so please can you (or someone else) tell me where you get your beliefs from - what information are you reading to make you optimistic, or is it just based on faith?

Thank you

I'm not planning to get into an argument with you Gill because you are entitled to your beliefs. As I am mine.

What I will say is this. That there are also equally respected people giving a positive view of Brexit. They are just as credible as those you listen to. There are also idiots on both sides. It's who you choose to believe, the same as which newspaper you choose to believe. In fact the newspapers will of course only bother to quote those who back their position.

I've stated clearly before what I see as the problems with staying in the EU. And Foxy has quoted pretty much what I also see as the benefits of getting out.

There is no right answer. But for me we've given the EU long enough to deal with their short comings. But they've ignored us and continue headlong down the path of ever closer union clinging to their four principles without recognising the problems they create. I'm ready to try a different way.

Well, that's good, because I have no plans in getting into an argument either.

I think the difference between me and you ( and the rest of the Brexiters ) is that I WANT to be wrong.

Although I would prefer to stay in the EU, when (or if) we leave, I desperately want everything to go smoothly, with no problems, so we can continue with our day to day lives and for everything to function normally - particularly in a no deal Brexit situation

I have come to the conclusion that it comes down to faith. I haven't got the Brexiter's faith about the sunlit uplands that are awaiting us after Brexiter. But will be happy to be proved wrong in the fullness of time.

I've become tired of the circular arguments. My aim was for understanding and to if see people honestly think we have time to prepare for what ever outcome the negotiations yield.

I feel it's not possible for people to put aside their entrenched views and look at all this subject without their personal bias

I will have to stop posting on this thread for a while, as it's consuming too much time.

I'll return later, if/when something substantive happens

[Gill W]

Year 2000, oh look the world hasn't ended after all.

The deed has been done with regard the vote and exiting the EU. Live with it or move on because it ain't gonna change.

1000's of people worked for several years to deal with the millenium bug

We've now got just under seven months to deal with something on an even larger scale, and we don't yet know the terms on which we are leaving. The world is not ending, but people need to be talking about this, instead of trotting out the same old 'you lost deal with it comments'.

Indeed they did Gill and our IT specialists sold us the need to buy in a new system from Europe's largest software company because their system was already millennium proof. Only for us to have to work extra hard to install the many patches they had to produce to make it work properly. And then guess what, our old bespoke system functioned perfectly on our test system over the millennium.

To use that as an analogy, imagine how many patches something the size of Brexit will need. What a nightmare !

In the event of a no deal Brexit, what we have now won't work. As we currently have no idea what to prepare for, I can't see for the life of me how we will be ready for March.

[Gill W]

OMG! Posted above before I even saw page 27!!!

Still not got time to read it! I have other things to do!

BUT .... It is ok to get rid of NI, Scotland and Wales as they are of no financial benefit to us!!!!!!

I really cannot believe some of the things I am reading on this thread.

Lets get rid of anyone who is a financial burden on us, Shall we? Why not? Where shall we start? Poor? unemployed? retired? Ill? any one over 60? Any one with cancer? Art? Culture? Libraries? Museums? Dont what anyone being a financial burden now do we.

Wow! calm down dear !
Nobody is suggesting getting rid of anybody. with reference to the UK countries, what was actually inferred was that democracy should rule, as it did in the EU referendum.
IF, the good folk of NI, Wales & Scotland decided to go their own way, who are we to stand in the way of it.
If I may say so, that is a typical over reaction that we see so much of these days.
Comments like this are the exact reason why I avoid Facebook & Twitter.

I think it takes a lot of courage for someone new to post in this thread. For all you know, Golden Princess may have been watching for weeks, and what she was feeling just bubbled over. Everybody is entitled to their view and I think you are wrong to dismiss GP's opinion as an over reaction.

[Gill W]

I'm not. I believe that response was a reply to remainer hysteria that we are going to run out of food post Brexit.

Can't you say something like 'Remainer worries', rather than hysteria? Using words like hysteria is a bit inflammatory

[Gill W]

So how long are we likely to have food shortages? And would workable tariffs make food very expensive?

What is the alternative?

If been wondering about the cost of food ( and everything) if we had to trade by WTO rules. No doubt the consumers would pick up the bill for the increased costs.

Some people might be ok about that, but could be disastrous for those who are already financially stretched

[Jack Staff]

Btw Jack, you haven't thanked me for giving you the heads up about Bicold

Regards

Keith

Thank you for the thought Keith, but there is no point. As I have said before our electricity supply is in no way guaranteed.
The official line is obviously "It's fine. Nothing to see here", but I have it on good authority (Brexiters aren't the only ones with friends in the know) that the six planned interconnects will probably not now go ahead and there is still no agreement on using the ones we already have.

This means power cuts.

[Jack Staff]

So how long are we likely to have food shortages? And would workable tariffs make food very expensive?

What is the alternative?

If been wondering about the cost of food ( and everything) if we had to trade by WTO rules. No doubt the consumers would pick up the bill for the increased costs.

Some people might be ok about that, but could be disastrous for those who are already financially stretched

Don't worry about trading under WTO rules. Our sovereign Parliament has made that illegal.
Hope you like potatoes!

[Onelife]

Hi Gill,

Just before you take a break from this thread l would just like to say l have read all of your posts and whilst l hope we are right, and as you say, you hope you are wrong....l respect your opinion.

Regards

keith

[Onelife]

Btw Jack, you haven't thanked me for giving you the heads up about Bicold

Regards

Keith

Thank you for the thought Keith, but there is no point. As I have said before our electricity supply is in no way guaranteed.
The official line is obviously "It's fine. Nothing to see here", but I have it on good authority (Brexiters aren't the only ones with friends in the know) that the six planned interconnects will probably not now go ahead and there is still no agreement on using the ones we already have.

This means power cuts.

Sorry Jack...you've lost me on that one...l presume we are talking power supplies but what are the planned six interconnects?

[Onelife]

So how long are we likely to have food shortages? And would workable tariffs make food very expensive?

What is the alternative?

Hi Princess,

I've got enough in my freezer to see me through the first 6 months if that helps

l don't think it will make food very expensive but there will more than likely be increases.

Emigrate to a WTO country or stick it out with the rest of us

Regards

keith

[Mervyn and Trish]

I'm not. I believe that response was a reply to remainer hysteria that we are going to run out of food post Brexit.

Can't you say something like 'Remainer worries', rather than hysteria? Using words like hysteria is a bit inflammatory

Okay since you have chosen to criticise me personally I will break my vow not to argue with you Gill.

I think it is a fair choice of word given that the article Jack quotes is about the NFU, who speak out of self interest and concern that subsidies paid, in many cases to very wealthy landowners, will be removed or reformed after Brexit, and are trying to create hysteria to get their own way.

Also that the very article is laced in almost every sentence with carefully placed ifs and buts that Jack misses and so interprets as definitive rather than speculative opinion.

It's a shame the NFU are not welcoming the chance to reestablish British farming as the best and most efficient in the world. After all they've complained often enough about, for example, the UK dairy industry being decimated by cheap imports from other parts of the EU.

That really is it. I'm out again, for now......

[Jack Staff]

Btw Jack, you haven't thanked me for giving you the heads up about Bicold

Regards

Keith

Thank you for the thought Keith, but there is no point. As I have said before our electricity supply is in no way guaranteed.
The official line is obviously "It's fine. Nothing to see here", but I have it on good authority (Brexiters aren't the only ones with friends in the know) that the six planned interconnects will probably not now go ahead and there is still no agreement on using the ones we already have.

This means power cuts.

Sorry Jack...you've lost me on that one...l presume we are talking power supplies but what are the planned six interconnects?

http://ec.europa.eu/energy/infrastructu ... /main.html

[Jack Staff]

That really is it. I'm out again, for now......

Oooooh you little click teaser.

[Gill W]

I'm not. I believe that response was a reply to remainer hysteria that we are going to run out of food post Brexit.

Can't you say something like 'Remainer worries', rather than hysteria? Using words like hysteria is a bit inflammatory

Okay since you have chosen to criticise me personally I will break my vow not to argue with you Gill.

I think it is a fair choice of word given that the article Jack quotes is about the NFU, who speak out of self interest and concern that subsidies paid, in many cases to very wealthy landowners, will be removed or reformed after Brexit, and are trying to create hysteria to get their own way.

Also that the very article is laced in almost every sentence with carefully placed ifs and buts that Jack misses and so interprets as definitive rather than speculative opinion.

It's a shame the NFU are not welcoming the chance to reestablish British farming as the best and most efficient in the world. After all they've complained often enough about, for example, the UK dairy industry being decimated by cheap imports from other parts of the EU.

That really is it. I'm out again, for now......

I’m sorry, if you felt it was criticism. It was a request. It takes two to have an argument, and as I’m not having one, I think it’ll just have to fizzle out here.

That’s it from me as well, as I need a break

[Gill W]

Hi Gill,

Just before you take a break from this thread l would just like to say l have read all of your posts and whilst l hope we are right, and as you say, you hope you are wrong....l respect your opinion.

Regards

keith

Thank you, I appreciate that. Just a bit sad that Brexit has caused so many divisions

[Gill W]

So how long are we likely to have food shortages? And would workable tariffs make food very expensive?

What is the alternative?

If been wondering about the cost of food ( and everything) if we had to trade by WTO rules. No doubt the consumers would pick up the bill for the increased costs.

Some people might be ok about that, but could be disastrous for those who are already financially stretched

Don't worry about trading under WTO rules. Our sovereign Parliament has made that illegal.
Hope you like potatoes!

I like a jacket potato. Not so keen on turnips though!

[Onelife]

Btw Jack, you haven't thanked me for giving you the heads up about Bicold

Regards

Keith

Thank you for the thought Keith, but there is no point. As I have said before our electricity supply is in no way guaranteed.
The official line is obviously "It's fine. Nothing to see here", but I have it on good authority (Brexiters aren't the only ones with friends in the know) that the six planned interconnects will probably not now go ahead and there is still no agreement on using the ones we already have.

This means power cuts.

Sorry Jack...you've lost me on that one...l presume we are talking power supplies but what are the planned six interconnects?

http://ec.europa.eu/energy/infrastructu ... /main.html

Hi Jack,

Just had a read about this PCI thingamebob and can find nothing in it that suggests that lights will be turned off. From what l can deduce, the PCI's is nothing more than a European incentive dreamt up by Europe to help Europe.....It may have some merits but it is way over my understanding so l'll have to leave it there.

Regards

Keith

[Jack Staff]

Thank you for the thought Keith, but there is no point. As I have said before our electricity supply is in no way guaranteed.
The official line is obviously "It's fine. Nothing to see here", but I have it on good authority (Brexiters aren't the only ones with friends in the know) that the six planned interconnects will probably not now go ahead and there is still no agreement on using the ones we already have.

This means power cuts.

Sorry Jack...you've lost me on that one...l presume we are talking power supplies but what are the planned six interconnects?

http://ec.europa.eu/energy/infrastructu ... /main.html

Hi Jack,

Just had a read about this PCI thingamebob and can find nothing in it that suggests that lights will be turned off. From what l can deduce, the PCI's is nothing more than a European incentive dreamt up by Europe to help Europe.....It may have some merits but it is way over my understanding so l'll have to leave it there.

Regards

Keith

Keith, the Projects of Common Interest (PCI) will enable us to flog our excess electricity to Europe (say when it's windy here from our lovely new wind farms). On those cold still winter days we can then buy French leccy from their nuclear. In our common interest.
That's the six new lines, not yet built.
We do have two in operation already, doing the above. Whilst inadequate, they very much help our leccy needs.
The question is from April 2019, how do we trade electricity with countries we have no trade deal with?

It is the international grid. you could be using German leccy right now. In future, on those cold winter days, we will not have the capacity. Hence power cuts. Hope this helps. Jack.

[Onelife]

Hi Jack.....Thank you.

You have raised an important issue here Jack, one that l hadn't considered.
As you say we are relient on other countries, inside and outside of the EU to supply our power needs, should we crash out of the EU this could cause major problems, not only from the supply implementations but also making us vulnerable to imported energy price rises.

In the short term we'll need to do some pretty good negotiating.... and stock up on candles, long term we will need to invest in renewable and nuclear energy and pile up the logs.

Regards

Keith

[Ray Scully]

Hi Jack.....Thank you.

You have raised an important issue here Jack, one that l hadn't considered.
As you say we are relient on other countries, inside and outside of the EU to supply our power needs, should we crash out of the EU this could cause major problems, not only from the supply implementations but also making us vulnerable to imported energy price rises.

In the short term we'll need to do some pretty good negotiating.... and stock up on candles, long term we will need to invest in renewable and nuclear energy and pile up the logs.

Regards

Keith

Wow !! this is frightening and ironically will hit us old folk worse many of whom voted to Brexit

[towny44]

Jack, regardless of the PCI do you seriously believe that major EU power companies, some of whom own UK power suppliers, are going to stand idly by and see the opportunities to profit from sales between the EU and UK lost because of EU red tape. I doubt it very much, but of course its suits the remain camp to flag up every potential issue of this sort, in the hope that saps, see what I did there, like you believe it.

[Manoverboard]

I've got enough in my freezer to see me through the first 6 months ….

Dare I suggest ' OL ' that you re-read your Freezer User Guide else buy a book about storing frozen products and / or freezing fresh produce as apart from Beef very little of the contents of an average freezer should be stored for an extensive period … just saying.

[towny44]

I've got enough in my freezer to see me through the first 6 months ….

Dare I suggest ' OL ' that you re-read your Freezer User Guide else buy a book about storing frozen products and / or freezing fresh produce as apart from Beef very little of the contents of an average freezer should be stored for an extensive period … just saying.

We have never had much of a problem with the shelf life of freezer contents, despite them having obsolete use by dates.

[Onelife]

I've got enough in my freezer to see me through the first 6 months ….

Dare I suggest ' OL ' that you re-read your Freezer User Guide else buy a book about storing frozen products and / or freezing fresh produce as apart from Beef very little of the contents of an average freezer should be stored for an extensive period … just saying.

Hi Mob

May l suggest you get yourself on a home economic course.....l'd hate to see you go short during the darker months.

Bread
Butter
Eggs
Pork pie
Fruit pies
Fish....l don't like it myself but the wife dose
Rice
Beans
Meat

If you're ever passing Ludlow do drop in for a bite to eat